voltaire

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Posts by voltaire

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  3

  Going around in circles or a defined objective/s?

  by Celtic in

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  does this community just keep going around in circles, stuck in its rut or is there an objective to this site, if so, what is it and what are any future intended plans for objectivity?.

  peace.

  celtic

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  voltaire

  Excellent question and replies! I agree that it can be frustrating sometimes to feel as though nothing ever happens around here. I believe, however, that this board does have an effect on the organization. The single greatest weapon that the society wields is the ability to control the flow of information to the witness community. That's why disfellowshipping is so powerful. It squashes dissent by totally isolating those who dare to question. It surely has a tremendous effect on the rank and file's ability to reason. Just knowing that "independant thinking" (read thinking) can lead to total ostracism keeps JWs from even going down certain paths, even in the privacy of their own thoughts. This forum is undermining the society's most potent weapon. I truly believe that as more publicity is shed on the various scandals that are brewing, more and more JWs will be moved to do research on the internet. When that time comes, this site will be invaluable. They will find that the nagging doubts they've felt are experienced by others; that the negative experiences that have shaken their faith are more common than they could have possibly known from their relatively small circle of JW contacts. When Jws begin to frequent these sites in sufficient numbers, the society will be forced to respond. I think they'll have to make some rather sweeping changes. I don't expect them to come out and say, "all right, the apostates and disgruntled publishers win, we'll change X, Y and Z." They will bow to pressure, it'll be called "new light" of course. They'll villify those who bring the pressure to bear and they'll deny that they acted based on anything but a desire to please god, but we'll know better.

  So hang in there! Keep posting. Do what you can to spread a more balanced view of the society. Don't expect a total collapse of the society. Religions are resilient. And people want desperately to believe in something and to be told what to do, so I think we'll always have the WT with us. But we can create a community for those who wish to share their experiences and find relief in knowing that what they've gone through is not unique. In short, this is a kind of therapy. And, in the end, I think the WT will be forced to recognize a growing body of persons who refuse to yield to their control.
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  Ever been counciled for doing a craft??

  by lydia in

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  coming from central pa - i get to see lots of quilts - and i have started to quilt myself - although i recieved lots of council about spending the long hours alone on a quilt ( the brother apparently never heard the words "quilting bee" ) i finally quit doing them for a while because of the pressure i was getting..... finnally when i realized that i needed to do some form of craft as a stress reducer ( from all the pressure from the borg) i told the elders where to go - and also said " i'd be happy to quit quilting - are you going to pay for the pyschiatri help and the meds they may prescribe??

  this is therapy for me!!".

  it shut him up for a bit.. .

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  voltaire

  The elders on our body once counseled a brother who made musical instruments. Each one took many hours, maybe a hundred or more. He could sell them, but only for about three or four hundred dollars each. So he wasn't making much per hour, especially when you factor in the materials and tools. He was definitely suffering from depression. He had been a smoker. His doctor told him to get a hobby that would give him something to do with his hands. This was a perfect outlet for him. Of course, the time he invested in the hobby took away time he could have spent on theocratic activities. I had suffered from depression myself, so I was shocked at the elder's inability to understand the problem. "Theocratic" activities were in my case, and I suspect in the case of this brother, a considerable part of the problem. Life is stressful. Add to the everyday challenges of making a living the pressures of being an elder or a ministerial servant and some people just can't take it. It's simply amazing that they can heap such burdens on a person and then try to take away one of the few ways he or she has of coping.
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  29

  Who will be the next 'king of the north'?

  by YoYoMama in

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  interesting news article: http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2002/01/10/dfw/news-011002-02.htm

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  voltaire

  It never ceases to amaze me that the WT thinks that prophecies can only be interpreted AFTER their fulfillment. If the society is directed by God in some special way, let's hear an interpretation of Daniel's prophecy NOW. Who is it going to be? No hints or intimations. Of course, explaining prophecies before hand is tricky business that has got the WT into quite a bit of hot water over the years. On second thought, better stick to after the fact explanations. They're not so impressive, but they're safer.
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  10

  Para todos los que hablan español - 2

  by CPiolo in

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  yoyomama:.

  yo estaba ocupado ultimamente y solamente recien tuve tiempo para responder.

  empece otro hilo porque el original ya esta enterrado y dificil encontrar.

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  voltaire

  Did Herb Tarlic die?
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  10

  Para todos los que hablan español - 2

  by CPiolo in

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  yoyomama:.

  yo estaba ocupado ultimamente y solamente recien tuve tiempo para responder.

  empece otro hilo porque el original ya esta enterrado y dificil encontrar.

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  voltaire

  Cpiolo,

  In the words of the immortal Herb Talic (WKRP in Cinncinatti-sp?)
  "No problemo"

  BTW Donde se habla con voseo? Conozco a una Argentina que lo usa de vez en cuando aunque trate de evitarlo porque la mayoria no lo usamos. Tambien, mi motivo no fue criticar, entiendo que hay varias formas de Espanol y la variedad hace de la vida mas interesante. Con todo, me parece raro. Ni modo, me adapto ;)

  (Good post, though dudo que le ayude a Yoyomama cambiar de idea)
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  10

  Para todos los que hablan español - 2

  by CPiolo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yoyomama:.

  yo estaba ocupado ultimamente y solamente recien tuve tiempo para responder.

  empece otro hilo porque el original ya esta enterrado y dificil encontrar.

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  voltaire

  #1 I really do think you should make your comments in English, this is an English board. Although, as Paul Rodriguez once said to a group of Vietnamese in an elevator, "Hey! This is the United States. Speak Spanish!"

  #2 Un comentario sobre lo que dijo Cpiolo en cuanto a la falta de apoyo para los que batallan la adiccion a las drogas u otros problemas. Cuando era anciano, expulsamos a un joven que habia cometido fornicacion con varias hermanas(3?4?). El me habia contado como antes de hacerse testigo , el solia dormir con muchas mujeres. Se habian divorciado el y su esposa por eso. Tenia un problema, obvio. Yo no era uno de los hermanos que formo parte del comite, pero uno de ellos me dijo que cuando lo expulsaron, estaba a punto de llorar. Pregunto "Me van a abandonar? Como hago ahora? Necesito ayuda." Y que le sugerieron los ancianos? Que consultara a un medico, un psicologo? No, sino que leyera La Biblia mas! Esto ya estaba haciendo, y predicando. Creo que se envolvio al grado maximo en la predicacion para estar bien ocupado y no ser tentado a envolucrarse en algo inmoral. Obviamente se conocia a si mismo. Estoy de acuerdo con Cpiolo. Si los hermanos no estan capacitados a dar ayuda a las ovejas, necesitan enviarlos a un fuente de tal apoyo. Eso es el problema mas urgente en la sociedad. Es porque no han manejado bien la situacion con los que abusan de los menores. Se creen capacitados porque leen La Biblia y desprecian a las autoridades "mundanas". Ahora vemos los frutos. Y la sociedad nunca informa a los hermanos acerca de estos asuntos. Infelizmente, ex testigos pueden averiguar mas de la organizacion que los mismos testigos. (Entre parentesis, literalmente en este caso! Me da cosa el voseo, Acaso no peuden hablar en Cristiano?)
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  26

  And they talk about love?

  by Xena in

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  with the 4th anniversary of my parents death looming and the anniversary of their last wedding anniversary party where my family was together and happy for the last time just being past ....i was feeling kind of depressed and wanted to reach out to what family i have left.

  i sat there and debated in my mind if i should do it...should i try and reach out to my sister..see if i could reach her across the barrier of the jw religion.

  should i try to remind her that we are sisters...we were sisters before we became jws and we will always be sisters.

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  voltaire

  Xena,

  I'm sorry you're feeling so bad. It's ok to feel a little pity. If it lasts for several weeks, don't hesitate to see a doctor. We j-dubs have an ingrained aversion to mental health professionals. Posting here helps me. I hope the support makes a difference for you , too. Keep us updated. I think experiences like yours are good to keep on the board. They may help someone to realize that there's a darker side to the JW thing.
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  37

  JW Education Status

  by Scully in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was posted on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, just thought i'd share it with you:.

  the following figures from an article in newsweek represent the number of college graduates within each religious group in america.

  can this be used to relate the intelligence of the membership of each religion?

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  voltaire

  Interesting remarks about the two positions JWs have to maintain with regard to the world's destruction at armageddon. It's the same situation they face on a number of issues, education included(which is, after all, the topic of this thread.) What's fascinating (and unbearably frustrating) is that (some? most?) witnesses will deny the real position, the one not printed for public consumption in many cases. This happens to me with my wife. She would deny that an education (a real one, I mean) is discouraged, even though I'm a witness. I've been an elder and a pioneer! You can't fool me like you could a householder in the ministry. I've probably given many talks discouraging college. Witnesses can believe two contradictory ideas at once and explain each, as needed, as though the other didn't exist. This was eventually the last straw. I'm not capable anymore of such duplicity and I won't waste my breath with anyone so dishonest. (I don't really blame most individuals. I think they want to believe so badly that they can convince themselves of anything.)
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  37

  JW Education Status

  by Scully in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was posted on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, just thought i'd share it with you:.

  the following figures from an article in newsweek represent the number of college graduates within each religious group in america.

  can this be used to relate the intelligence of the membership of each religion?

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  voltaire

  This is a classic case of doublespeak and doublethink. Every witness worth his salt knows that college is "bad". (I do think there's a bit more of an open attitude in the big city, what I'm saying is, of necessity, a bit of a generalization) I think the society had to come out with a public stand in favor of higher education. Their position was no longer intellectually defensible. Now if someone asks about our view of college, we can say, "oh, the society encourages education." We even have it in print. Of course, they encourage an education that allows you to pioneer. (Funny, their aren't many fields where you can find work part time.) Witnesses are deceiving themselves and those they speak with when they assert that the society is in favor of, or supports, education. (Of course, the JW may have in mind the education at the kingdom hall, knowing full well the householder has in mind a college education)
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  15

  Bitter Fruitage of Ignorance &Isolation

  by metatron in

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  it is reasonable to expect more accounts of violence and deranged.

  behavior among witnesses in coming years.. why?

  to the watchtower leadership, the organization appears little.

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  voltaire

  Happy Man,

  I guess it depends on one's vantage point, but it seems to me that the WT is the one guilty of only seeing the negative side of life. Maybe that's why XJW's seem so negative to you, they've spent years seeing the world and everyone in it as evil, only to find out it's been a lie. That will make a person cynical. In the end, it's really no different than the basic tone of a meeting.