Posts by voltaire

I've been reading more lately than I ever have, now that I'm on the chopping block to be DF. (Actually for the last 2 months, I've been reading away like mad. I recommend it as a great way to get perspective on life and JWs)

I just finished a short story by Stephen Vincent Benet called "By the Waters of Babylon." (He also wrote "The Devil and Daniel Webster")It's sort of science fiction, but from the thirties, so it's not real high-tech futuristic. It's about a group of primitive people who have survived some destruction of civilization(Of course they don't remember that, it's been so long) The story is told from the point of view of a young man who becomes a priest and decides to journey East to the place of the Gods, which is of course forbidden. He's actually returning to New York, but you don't realize that until toward the end. (Think "Planet of the Apes" and Charlton Heston discovering the Statue of Liberty)He eventually realizes that the inhabitants of the city were really just men, with some really cool technology. When he gets back to his people, he tells his father what he's found out. The exchange is interesting:

"I wished to tell all the people but he showed me otherwise. He said, "Truth is a hard deer to hunt. If you eat too much truth at once, you may die of the truth. It was not idly that our forefathers forbade the Dead Places." He was right-it is better the truth should come little by little."

This struck a nerve with me. For the first time two Saturdays ago, five years after suspecting that the "truth" isn't true after all, I
told the elders what I really think. It took me 5 long years of real inner turmoil and struggle to be able to handle the truth. Truth was, indeed, "a hard deer to hunt." Sometimes I felt like I was the hunted. It has been painful, "eating" so much truth, I couldn't have done it all at once.

If there's a moral for those who may be doubting and lurking on this board, it's this; take your time. It's a long painful journey for some. Don't give up, try not to despair. When you make it to the other side you WILL feel better.

12

Part 15: The Letter to the Watch Tower Society

by Amazing in

part 15: the letter to the watch tower society .

elder g calls: brother amazing, can we talk.

i saw no reason to hang up so i said yes ... he said, we need to settle some things.

voltaire

Very exciting installment! A few observations:

"You have a conception built up over time as to how things are supposed to work"-It really is true that JWs are like the masons in that there are different "levels" of knowledge as to how the organization works. At first you really belive that the Bible is the bottom line. That the org. would change direction in an instant if they discovered something were out of line scripturally. At the end you realize that it's the other way around entirely. Everything revolves around organizational survival. The Bible can, and will, be made to fit whatever the org. needs at the time.(This would be vigorously denied to any Bible student, or even your R&F publisher. You have to push hard, like Amazing did, before anyone really gives you the true "bottom line".)

"The PO needs to face a JC and be disciplined"-It always shocked me to hear of brothers lying in order to get confessions. I heard an elder relate to a rather large group of brothers how when he was younger the CO had called in all the young people saying, "We know what you did, you need to confess now." Evidently there had been some large scale wrongdoing by the youths and there were a lot of efforts to keep it quiet, so they weren't sure who was involved. This brother said he was REAL nervous, but didn't know anything about the situation. He didn't say if he had confessed to some other sin. My opinion is the same as yours Amazing, even then when I heard the experience, I said to myself, "If I'm ever on a committee and an elder lies, I'm going to call him on it in private. If he doesn't back down I'm gonna raise hell till he's DF. (If that had ever happened, I'D BEEN DF'ED, NOT THE OTHER ELDER)

I feel sorry for the CO. He would lose so much by being truthful. On the other hand, I have great respect for one Ray Franz. I'm left wondering how many are really with us, but can't speak out?

Looking forward to more,

Ron

7

Some Thoughts On Human Behaviour

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

when you leave behind the watchtower, and start thinking for yourself, you necessarily have to ditch their view of human society.

over the past year, i've given quite a lot of thought to other explanations for human behaviour, and the way human society is the way it is, with it's enormous contrasts and inconsistencies.

one of the viewpoints i've considered is that of thomas hobbes, and so far (in my opinion) it is the simplest model that fits observed conditions.

voltaire

Good work! (especially for a brit!),

Seriously, I do appreciate philosophy more these days. I'm reading as many of the books that I missed in the org. as I can. I agree that more and more of the misterious world we live in makes sense in light of science and philosophy, with less and less need for supernatural intervention. Do I like it? No. I prefer that there be a kind, fatherly God to make everything work out right. But, we've got to go with reality. (At least, I do. Some people seem content without it!)

20

The elders visited me yesterday.

by voltaire in

jw
friends

well, it's finally over.

last saturday i talked with an elder about how i feel about the wt.

we talked for about 3 hours.

voltaire

Well, it's finally over. Last Saturday I talked with an elder about how I feel about the WT. We talked for about 3 hours. The next day he asked my wife what would be a good day to see me again. They came by yesterday(the very first available opportunity), but I wasn't home. They waited in front of the house for a long while(according to my wife) but had left when I arrived. I had been home for about 15 minutes when the doorbell rang. They were pleasant, we chatted a very little and they asked if I thought it was the truth. I said "no". They said, "either you're with us or you're against us." They suggested I write a letter. I told them I wouldn't, because I think it's unethical to shun people for their points of view. They could difellowship me if they wished. They said they would and asked me if I would be going to the judicial meeting. I said "no". They understood. They'll call me to let me know the time and place as a formality. Then they'll let me know their decision. (wonder what'll be????)

I think I still clung just a little bit to the notion that maybe, just maybe, they would understand my position. It hurt, to be honest. I didn't commit adultery, kill someone or rob a bank. As soon as I let them know how I really felt, it was over. They were on me as fast as they possibly could be.

Quess what. Although it hurts a bit, it also feels very good to know that for the first time in my life, I'm true to myself. I'm honest with the world. If they want to shun me , I really don't have that much to say anyway. Although I feel a little anger at times, and cry a bit, I can see blue skies off in the distance and THAT IS A WONDERFUL FEELING!!!

ps I doubt I could have gotten through this as well as I did without the emotional support I've found here. (A special thanks to Fred Hall. In all seriousness, the whacked JWs who come here are proof enough of the poverty of intellect in the WT. )

11

The Greatest Decline - Their Vacuity

by metatron in

jw
friends

while the watchtower has suffered from a number of.

declines in various areas, there is no greater decay.

manifest than in its current publications.. as a teenager growing up, the 'truth' was, to me, a system of.

voltaire

Interesting observations. I've been re-reading CoC. Ray talks about the tremendous influnce of Freddie Franz in coming up with the doctrines. He made it sound as though most of the members of the GB were content to handle new issues by refering to existing WT rules and publications. This may be partly an issue of intellect and personality. I believe, however, there's more to it than that. The society has evolved in such a way that I think it would be very difficult to originate anything new, unless circumstances demand it.

If you think about it, most of the doctrine has been established by two men, Russell and Franz. Obviously, Russell was the first doctrinal leader. Ray seems to believe that Freddie was really the one doing Rutherford's writing for him. Ray also says that Rutherford personally designated Franz(Fred) and Knorr to carry on the work. Knorr ran the business operations and Fred established the doctrines.
In fact, when Ray came to his uncle, Fred, with concerns about the possible need to establish bodies of elders as in the first century congregation, Fred told him there would be no problem. If they needed to make any doctrinal changes, they would. That was before a real GB.

My question is simple. Who today has the authority to so blithely change WT doctrine? Surely no one person has the stature or respect of a Fred Franz. (Maybe Schroeder? Is he still lucid enough, though,
for that kind of heavy thinking?)

Another factor. After the witch hunt mentality of the early 80's, wouldn't it dangerous to bring up a new idea? Might not a person expose themselves to charges of apostasy?

Combine those two factors and I don't see anyone able to put forward anything new, unless circumstances make it obvious that SEVERE credibility or legal problems will ensue.

19

Do they owe us anything?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

how do you feel?

does the society owe us for misleading us or do we just blame ourselves?.

imagine we were sold a pension plan that guaranteed us a certain return.

voltaire

I'm with scorpion. We have a duty to make the truth known. The society obviously misrepresents themselves, which certainly allows it to make far more converts than it normally would if all the facts were presented up front. Furthermore, they manage to fool a lot of people into saddling themselves with guilt, even after they know it's not really the truth. It would never be my aim to bring down the society. People have every right to be JWs. Let's do all we can though to make it as easy as possible for potential converts to see what they're getting into up front as well as smooth the path for anyone who wants out. The rest is up to the individual.

As for compensation, if we were all compensated for every bad break and swindle there'd be no money left. Let's pull ourselves together and get on with our lives. This forum is a great place to both help one another with our experiences and observations as well as expose the WT for what it sometimes does to people.

26

An Open Letter to Ray Franz

by mikepence in

jw
friends

(please reply to this message with your own signature and added thoughts.

then, we will make sure that this reaches ray.).

dear ray,.

voltaire

Ray,

I can still remember using the intrastate catalog system trying to find a library with your book that was far enough away in the suburbs so that I could sneak there to read it in secret. I think I was expecting to read a lot of complaining from a bitter old man who attempted an organizational coup and got caught. Instead I got to know a warm, compassionate man who was able to explain his differences with an organization in a fair and balanced way. I really appreciated your lack of animosity toward the brothers. If anything, it's they who now seem to me unable to deal with others in a magnanimous way. I'll most likely be DF in the next few weeks. Your book has made it possible for me to leave while my sanity and physical health are still intact. Thank you.

Ron

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