Posts by fizzywiglet

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Wasblind,

Learn reading comprehension. I don't live in a prison. I'm out and an open apostate. I have no fear of the Watchtower. I've been estranged from my JW family for years and am perfectly happy.

And if I wasn't "out" yet, it would be none of your business.

That's the point here. It's not your business what choices others make, or why. Being added to a group without permission was rude and mildly inconvenient for me. It was damaging for others, who are still in. It's not your place to chastise them for choosing to fade or remain under the radar. And I have to say that the "if you're not with us, you're against us" vibe I've been getting from some AAWA members is pretty appalling. There have been some really snide posts (including some I saw on the Facebook group before I left it, from AAWA board members, no less) insinuating that those who disagree with an AAWA decision/tenet or choose not to participate are "not doing anything" against the Watchtower or aren't "real" activists, whatever that means. I'm actually very prominent in social issues causes and have been for several years (not just in ex-JW stuff). I'm pretty acclaimed in my field and am occasionally hired to give speeches at activist conferences and speak to lawmakers on social issues. I co-founded and co-run an international human rights organization (which is solely grassroots volunteer-based, and has been running almost four years without accepting or soliciting a single donation). And I learned very early on to avoid working with groups and organizations with that kind of defensive attitude - the moral outrage that somebody would criticize them, or the idea that they're the "only" ones doing something to help, or the "best" ones to help. The second someone responds to criticism with "Well, what are YOU doing to help?! What I'm doing is BETTER than what you're doing! I bet you aren't doing anything! I bet you live in a prison or are just scared of the Watchtower! I bet...etc., ad nauseam" and tries to turn it back on and undermine someone with a good point or constructive criticism, I immediately know that's someone I don't want to work with. My own organization certainly isn't above criticism, learning from our mistakes, and striving to do better, because for us, it's all about helping the people we set out to help - so we are most sensitive to their needs and input first, and they come from a variety of situations and backgrounds that we also need to be sensitive to and constantly take into account.

Again, I don't wish AAWA ill; I have friends who are members/volunteers and I hope they accomplish good things. But I see too many red flags for me to consider participating or endorsing it myself.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Head Is Spinning:

Nope. Not false. Tell that to the people who posted earlier on this thread that they were outed. People might not be able to see what is being posted on the group itself, but the title itself does show up.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

EmptyInside,

Yeah; FB doesn't exactly make it very obvious. Click the "gear" symbol on the top right of the page, and you will get a drop down menu with several options including "leave group".

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Then you need to contact that person and express your displeasure - if in fact you are displeased about being on the FB page. There may have been a few individuals added along the way by folks within our group, but the mass immigration of new members was primarily due to one over eager person.

Thanks; I think I'll continue to express my displeasure here. AAWA is responsible for its actions and that of its members. This person was indeed one of your associates and acting as a coordinator on behalf of AAWA, and this person is the same person who outed some of my friends without their knowledge. As Mamochan said, take responsibility and move on; don't let it happen again.

But yes, it was very upsetting to see AAWA board members posting and crowing about how quickly their Facebook group was growing, knowing that someone associated with AAWA had outed FB friends of mine.

You seem to be taking the position, "The people who outed faders on Facebook were not associated with AAWA, but if they were, then you need to contact them directly about it." And...no. If they are your associates or volunteers or part of your planning committee, you are ultimately responsible for their actions. Being added to a Facebook group is irritating/rude for me, but for others, it has made a mess of their REAL PERSONAL LIVES. I'm not sure how much it means to them that you chalk it up to "oopsie, growing pains, but our hearts are in a good place". They're still stuck scrambling to figure out what to do now that they've been put on the radar.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Juan,

I know the person who added me and several others is associated with AAWA or at least on some sort of planning committee, because that person also approached me on Cedars' behalf quite a while back to request that I film a testimonial for the YouTube video, while it was still in the planning stages. In fact, this person was very concerned that details about the organization be kept private, as it was still a secret.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Facebook apparently added a feature (which everybody hates) a couple years ago allowing you to unilaterally add anybody to a group. You can remove yourself and at the time of removal, click a box preventing anybody else from that group from re-adding you, but it doesn't undo the damage that was done before you notice that you've been added to said group.

Zuckerberg got a taste of his own medicine when someone added him without his consent to the NAMBLA Facebook page:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2010/10/08/mark-zuckerberg-quits-nambla-and-facebook-downplays-privacy-criticisms-over-groups/

So yeah, the feature remains available on Facebook. But socially, most people I know consider it rude and even unethical to add someone to a page without their consent. No, it's not as "simple" as just removing yourself if you don't like the group. It's not simple for the people on earlier pages of this thread who were outed. Try telling them it's "simple" as they now face a grilling from their family and friends, or even elders.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Good for you.

Not everybody has their Facebook settings the same way you do, or even knows that they can be added to a group by somebody else. And not everybody chose to join the group themselves, and some have already spoken earlier in this thread about how they or their friends were outed to JW family/friends by being added without permission.

I did not ask to be added, I was not invited to join (in fact, I had been asked to contribute a testimonial to their YouTube video in the planning stages and specifically declined), I was just added and didn't even find out about it until a day or two later (several of my Facebook friends experienced similar treatment). We were NOT treated with respect or consideration, we were NOT given the opportunity to protect our confidentiality. It was a dismissive "fine, then just remove yourself from the group", which does NOT retroactively undo the damage that was done.

So no, you may not "correct my statement". Not everybody's experience has been as respectful as yours, clearly.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

I'm not a fan of the name, myself, but whatever. It's not my group.

I do object to being added as one of their "activists" without my consent, though, and then being told, "oh, if you don't agree with our mission statement, then you can just remove yourself from our Facebook group". Uh, NO. Don't add me in the first place and then use me and all of the people you added without permission to tout your "growth".

A good chunk of the people they added may not even realize it, or realize it right away, and then they post stuff like, "Wow, only a few hours and we've already got 1300 members! We're growing so fast; I've never seen a response like this in my life!" or whatever. As though all those people were joining of their own accord, which is not the case.

I feel this way about ANY Facebook group that adds people instead of asking them to join, but even more delicacy is required here due to the nature of the group, and the name which many see as inflammatory. They outed some people already to their friends/family by adding them to AAWA - it shows up on your timeline as if you had joined. And it was mentioned a couple of times earlier on this thread that they outed people, but Cedars and his board members ignored those concerns completely and did not even respond to the issue, and on Facebook, they've been addressing it with a collective shrug. ("What, are we supposed to PM 1300 people and invite them to join?! Waaaah, that's too much wooooooork!" Um, yes, actually, that is exactly what a professional would do - contact individuals privately and invite them, and ask them to privately invite their friends.)

I mean, it's not even a hypothetical concern, like "what if they potentially out people?" It has actually happened. It is a real issue. They DID out people, and those people are upset, and they are basically trying to ignore or hand-wave it away.

That, to me, does not bode well. They're already exhibiting the callous attitude that their collective organization's rising star is far more important than any individuals they might (albeit accidentally) trample while promoting it. So what if they put faders at risk of DF-ing or shunning? It all comes secondary to being able to brag about how many "members" they have. So that's a red flag to me.

I don't wish them ill, but as far as joining, myself? Pass.

12

I could see myself following this Jesus

by EntirelyPossible in

http://www.hulu.com/watch/457671#i1,p0,d1.

it's a slightly less violent version of passion of the christ.

djesus unchained.. .

fizzywiglet

Per Pastor Mark Driscoll (I do not endorse his viewpoint at all, just laughing since it seems he got his wish):

"There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelation, Jesus is a pride fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up."

109

San Francisco or Bay Area Members?

by nibbled in

jw
friends

i did a search and came up with some posts related to san francisco, but i couldn't figure out how to find more recent onesthey were from nearly a dozen years ago!

i was wondering if anyone lives around sf, as well as if anyone is around my age?

i'm early 30's.

fizzywiglet

FizzyWiglet —why call it apostafest? I take apostacy seriously, but I recognize that the definition was bastardized by the WT. Even still, I see no reason to get ever participate in such a concept—even if its just a slang term. Somehow that makes me feel like a prude. I just don't want to be stuck in the WT limbo land forever. "Apostafest" seems to be a celebration of the not "over it yet" kind of break up style. Ick. Thoughts? Insight?

I guess I simply don't read into the term as deeply as you. And I didn't call it an apostafest. Rarely do I even talk WT stuff any more with my ex-JW friends. We just all met via the same avenue, that's all it refers to. Not gonna overanalyze it. :)