Posts by fizzywiglet

447

Problems with the "Bogus AWAA Fan Page"..

by OUTLAW in

good afternoon jwn... .

i`ve spent the morning and part of my afternoon... getting to the bottom of... why names were added to the awaa fan page... it`s a dangerous thing to happen in our world... faders can be outed,we can lose,family,friends... the results can be an absolute disaster... .

aawa "did not" create the facebook awaa fan page.

fizzywiglet

Rebel8 was outed. Friends of mine who were not part of the group could see the group name on my timeline, though they could not see the group itself.

Also, kind of a moot point, now that they've made the group "open to all", as Juan says.

The point isn't retroactively teaching people how to set their Facebook settings. It's not force-adding them to begin with, and doing your utmost to limit and undo the damage that has already been done.

They should remove everybody who was force-added and then PM them and invite them properly. Or at the very least PM everybody and let them know that they may have been added to the group without their knowledge, AAWA is very sorry, and they wanted to notify them and give them the opportunity to choose whether to stay or go. Because FB doesn't necessarily notify you when you've been force-added unless you have your settings set to let you know. And just making a "Hey, you can leave if you want to post" on the AAWA page and hoping force-added people see it doesn't work, both because not everybody logs in and looks at their entire timeline every day, and also because Facebook doesn't show your entire group all of your postings on their timeline...it's only something like 25% of users see it, and you have to pay for "sponsored" posts for it to show up for higher percentages of your group.

And yeah, I still find it disturbing that their argument is "well, screw those people who left and their complaining complainyness about being added without permission or potentially outed, just because we don't know very much about social media and privacy. They were quickly replaced by new members and we still totally have 1300 people".

Yes, that's absolutely the issue here. Not that people's privacy was compromised, but how many members came in to replace the "few" who have realized it so far and complained about it. Nice.

447

Problems with the "Bogus AWAA Fan Page"..

by OUTLAW in

good afternoon jwn... .

i`ve spent the morning and part of my afternoon... getting to the bottom of... why names were added to the awaa fan page... it`s a dangerous thing to happen in our world... faders can be outed,we can lose,family,friends... the results can be an absolute disaster... .

aawa "did not" create the facebook awaa fan page.

fizzywiglet

Rebel8 was outed. It did show up on her timeline.

To answer your question, Jgnat, a group name shows up on your timeline under "recent activity" or in your newsfeed when you join or are added. It does not show up on your timeline/newsfeed when you leave a group (there is no "so-and-so has left such-and-such group" notification on the newsfeed). Also, I believe there is a distinction between a "closed" group (name still shows up on newsfeed but nobody can see the contents) and a "secret" group (security is allegedly a little tighter though who knows, with Facebook settings, which change and glitch out all the time).

Also, I did not receive any email notification when I was added. Neither did Dagney. I didn't know for a couple of days, until I logged in (and then it was just buried in my notifications drop-down).

Now that the group has been made "open to all", there is even more potential for outing people who haven't yet realized they've been added. It's not as though you've removed all of the force-added people (some of whom you admit were added by your own volunteers and members) and then PM-d them to invite them properly. You've made the group open and increased the likelihood of outing, and you're just saying, "well, they can still leave or complain if they want to", even though many still may not realize they've been added.

How many people have yet left (after realizing they were added) or how many they've been replaced by is an irrelevant, moot point. I think you're at least trying to be honest and do something about it, Juan, in contrast with some other board members, but "only a FEW people have complained about being outed or potentially outed" isn't exactly any comfort to them. I mean, your argument is, "Hey, we only messed up or potentially messed up a FEW people's lives, only compromised a FEW people's privacy. That we know of. So far."

447

Problems with the "Bogus AWAA Fan Page"..

by OUTLAW in

good afternoon jwn... .

i`ve spent the morning and part of my afternoon... getting to the bottom of... why names were added to the awaa fan page... it`s a dangerous thing to happen in our world... faders can be outed,we can lose,family,friends... the results can be an absolute disaster... .

aawa "did not" create the facebook awaa fan page.

fizzywiglet

The group I was added to without consent was not a bogus group, from all I could see. Bo Juel Jensen and several other AAWA members were posting on it. Bo is a board member. He was talking about how amazing it was that the group was growing so quickly. And Juan said earlier that it was meant to be a secret group, which they have now made an open group.

And the person who added me and several of my friends was an AAWA coordinator (and not a "him" as Outlaw says, but a "her").

Sorry; don't mean to be abrasive, but I find it a little disturbing that AAWA won't just admit to its mistake and try not to make it again. I'm sure the people who were outed don't appreciate all the blame-shifting.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

BlindNoMore

I used to be someone else on the forum and contributed many more comments, but have not been back in a while. I don't remember my old password. But this issue has upset me enough to talk about it here. And you seem to be intimating that "newbies" on a forum don't deserve respect or consideration. Tsk tsk.

And again, no, it's not as simple as just "removing yourself". You really think a JW elder, for example, is going to buy "I don't know why I'm a member of that group"? You don't think they're not going to be keeping an extra close eye on you from then on even if they do pretend to buy it?

And JW Facts, no, it was not an unrelated person. I've already mentioned that it was somebody associated with AAWA, and it's another red flag to me that AAWA is now trying to distance themselves from this person. If AAWA wants to be a legitimate nonprofit, then guess what? They're responsible for the actions of their volunteers and coordinators.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

WasBlind, clearly you don't understand, because if you had reading comprehension you would have noticed that I am not concerned about being outed myself, having been out for quite a long time already. And yeah, trying to guilt-trip and shame people for remaining in (as you do further up by questioning why they choose to "remain in a prison" and "live in fear of the WTS") is a dick move. Saying that people with valid concerns are "bitching" and implying that the ends justifies the means...makes you a jerk who is in attack mode, no matter how you try to passive-aggressively couch your attack in concern-trolling.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

HeadIsSpinning,

I did not "like" any page, I was added. I even asked my friend (Dagney) if she could see the group (she could only see the title and not any of the posts, but that was enough). It was showing up as a "like" even though I never liked it. Rebel8, early in this thread, had the same experience, and she was outed. Makes sense...nothing's ever truly private or "secret" on Facebook, given their track record of glitches and data breaches and ever-changing privacy settings.

Of course, it's all a moot point since Juan said further up that they've now made it an open group, so it's still going to show up on the profiles of people who were added without consent until they remove themselves.

Also moot, I guess, but to me somewhat telling, is that they're holding themselves out as having 1300 "members" and astronomical growth, when that has clearly not been the case - as Juan said, hundreds of people were force-added. I don't know who he's talking about who added hundreds of people, but the person who added me and about 30 of my friends was a coordinator associated with AAWA and on the planning committee who helped organize and create the YouTube video.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Wasblind,

Learn reading comprehension. I don't live in a prison. I'm out and an open apostate. I have no fear of the Watchtower. I've been estranged from my JW family for years and am perfectly happy.

And if I wasn't "out" yet, it would be none of your business.

That's the point here. It's not your business what choices others make, or why. Being added to a group without permission was rude and mildly inconvenient for me. It was damaging for others, who are still in. It's not your place to chastise them for choosing to fade or remain under the radar. And I have to say that the "if you're not with us, you're against us" vibe I've been getting from some AAWA members is pretty appalling. There have been some really snide posts (including some I saw on the Facebook group before I left it, from AAWA board members, no less) insinuating that those who disagree with an AAWA decision/tenet or choose not to participate are "not doing anything" against the Watchtower or aren't "real" activists, whatever that means. I'm actually very prominent in social issues causes and have been for several years (not just in ex-JW stuff). I'm pretty acclaimed in my field and am occasionally hired to give speeches at activist conferences and speak to lawmakers on social issues. I co-founded and co-run an international human rights organization (which is solely grassroots volunteer-based, and has been running almost four years without accepting or soliciting a single donation). And I learned very early on to avoid working with groups and organizations with that kind of defensive attitude - the moral outrage that somebody would criticize them, or the idea that they're the "only" ones doing something to help, or the "best" ones to help. The second someone responds to criticism with "Well, what are YOU doing to help?! What I'm doing is BETTER than what you're doing! I bet you aren't doing anything! I bet you live in a prison or are just scared of the Watchtower! I bet...etc., ad nauseam" and tries to turn it back on and undermine someone with a good point or constructive criticism, I immediately know that's someone I don't want to work with. My own organization certainly isn't above criticism, learning from our mistakes, and striving to do better, because for us, it's all about helping the people we set out to help - so we are most sensitive to their needs and input first, and they come from a variety of situations and backgrounds that we also need to be sensitive to and constantly take into account.

Again, I don't wish AAWA ill; I have friends who are members/volunteers and I hope they accomplish good things. But I see too many red flags for me to consider participating or endorsing it myself.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Head Is Spinning:

Nope. Not false. Tell that to the people who posted earlier on this thread that they were outed. People might not be able to see what is being posted on the group itself, but the title itself does show up.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

EmptyInside,

Yeah; FB doesn't exactly make it very obvious. Click the "gear" symbol on the top right of the page, and you will get a drop down menu with several options including "leave group".

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

fizzywiglet

Then you need to contact that person and express your displeasure - if in fact you are displeased about being on the FB page. There may have been a few individuals added along the way by folks within our group, but the mass immigration of new members was primarily due to one over eager person.

Thanks; I think I'll continue to express my displeasure here. AAWA is responsible for its actions and that of its members. This person was indeed one of your associates and acting as a coordinator on behalf of AAWA, and this person is the same person who outed some of my friends without their knowledge. As Mamochan said, take responsibility and move on; don't let it happen again.

But yes, it was very upsetting to see AAWA board members posting and crowing about how quickly their Facebook group was growing, knowing that someone associated with AAWA had outed FB friends of mine.

You seem to be taking the position, "The people who outed faders on Facebook were not associated with AAWA, but if they were, then you need to contact them directly about it." And...no. If they are your associates or volunteers or part of your planning committee, you are ultimately responsible for their actions. Being added to a Facebook group is irritating/rude for me, but for others, it has made a mess of their REAL PERSONAL LIVES. I'm not sure how much it means to them that you chalk it up to "oopsie, growing pains, but our hearts are in a good place". They're still stuck scrambling to figure out what to do now that they've been put on the radar.