Posts by WTLies

5

November 1st 1995 Watchtower Issue

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

wow!

let's see, in this one issue -- november 1st 1995 watchtower -- they get rid of the "1914 generation" false prophecy, and they say that children must confront their molesters!

a time to keep awake .

WTLies

Undisfellowshipped, this was the very article that ended up freeing me from the grasp of the Watch Tower. When this article came out I was serving as an elder, when I read it, for the first time in my almost 30 year association with the Society, I began to doubt. If you would like to read my story it is posted here: http://www.jwfiles.com/jws-leaving/william.htm ; At this point I doubted they were being lead by Jehovah. I told them I no longer qualified to be an elder because to me an elder (actually all JW's) are supposed to believe everything coming from the Society.

If the Society had said they miscalculated or took the blame for the almost 50 years of telling us that the generation of 1914 will by NO MEANS pass away, it would been better in my opinion than blaming the whole association of brothers. While I was struggling with this new article I reasearched the use of the term 'this generation' and found amazing quotes:

"Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah's people have at times speculated about the time when the "great tribulation" would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914..." Watchtower Nov. 1, 1995

It's stuck me as odd for them to say that when they were wrong about something, but when they are printing it and are convinced it is correct, then the food is said to be coming from the Faithful Slave. Now, when it is obvious to them that it is in error, then it came from "Jehovah's people" it makes it seem as though we came up with this calculation on our own, that botherd me.

"Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur" Watchtower 5/15/84

"this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." Awakes prior to Nov. 95 pg 4

They took thier interpetation of the term 'this generation' and attached Jehovah's name to it, saying it was His Prophetic word and His Promise. According to the bible this made them false prophets they made a promise in the name of God that he did not state or tell them to make.

Deut.18: 20-22 "The prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: 'How should we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken? When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak."

This was not just getting a wrong date as in the 1975 situation, to me that was an honest mistake and Jehovah's people in the past have made many mistakes. But this went further, they did more than just state what they think was is going to happen, they said it was the word of God, and it of course was not. When I stepped aside from serving as an elder, my fellow elders could not believe I was making such a major issue of this. To them this was not a problem. I did not have my reasearch to show them the above quotes, as I had not looked it up yet. But I just knew something was very wrong with this organization and I could no longer be responsible for teaching it's doctrine. I did not leave entirely at that point, but later after the research I did stop going altogether.

I thank them for this article, if not for it or something simular I probly would still be a JW.

William,

Former member of a Non-Prophet Organization

38

What TV shows couldn't you watch as a JW Kid?

by WTLies in

jw
friends

we had a whole list of shows we were not allowed to watch including 'speed racer', you'll never guess why.

it was beacuse in the theme song it says "he's a demon on wheels" but then my mother was a jw fanatic lol.

william

WTLies

We had a whole list of shows we were not allowed to watch including 'Speed Racer', you'll never guess why. It was beacuse in the theme song it says "he's a demon on wheels" But then my mother was a JW fanatic LOL

William

46

NEWS FLASH: WATCHTOWER WILL NEVER Meet with BILL B

by minimus in

jw
friends

just in case you weren't really sure, the watchtower and the governing body will never meet with bill bowen.

he is now disfellowshipped.

WTLies

First, as a former elder, in my experience I've never heard of anyone but elders calling and presiding at Judical Hearings. Not even a JW in good standing can call a JH, even if he has two eye witnesses to a gross sin and the elders have failed to do anything, he cannot take it upon himself to handle the matter by calling the accused to a hearing he himself set up.

Second, I think Bill still believes the Watch Tower is Jehovah's chosen channel or at least used to be. That would explain his efforts in df'ing the GB so then everything will be right again. My opinion is, if you cut the head of that snake it will grow another and it STILL will be a snake! The Watch Tower Society is wrong down to it's core beliefs not just on child molestation procedures. That' s where I think Bill differs from most on this forum. If not for this one issue would Bill still be a JW in good standing, presiding over his Kentucky congregation? I think yes, whereas the marjority of us would not go to the 5 weekly meetings even if we were paid. So don't be surprised when Bill wants to fix the WT by removing the GB.

Thirdly, when cause oriented organizations start, (like Silentlambs) they often have the best of intentions but as time passes the focus changes from that which brought it in to being, (in this case child molestation procedures) instead to keeping the organization alive at all costs. IMO Bill's letter to the GB is an attempt to keep Silentlambs from losing momentum. When dealing with the public and the press you have to stay fresh and new to keep your name in the news. No organization that relies on press coverage to get it's message across wants to be considered yesterday's news, and no longer relevant.

Don't take this observation to imply that I do not support Bill in all his efforts to force the Watch Tower to change is child molestation procedures, because that would be incorrect. I just think we all would be better served if we supported people and causes rather than organizations.

Just my 2 cents worth

William,

Former member of a Non-Prophet Organization

10

Questions From Readers

by ThiChi in

jw
friends

important questions

is it possible to be totally partial?

if a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

WTLies

Why do you park in a Driveway and drive on a Parkway?

Why does your nose run and your feet smell?

Why is it called a Pair of pants?

Why do they call them apartments when they are so close together?

Just some of my own observations, this reminds me, where do we get some the expressions we use, like:

Bullseye Did anyone anyone really stick a bull in the eye?

Whole nine yards I thought this one was about football, but in football you need 10 yards.

More than one way to skin a cat Who skins cats anyway?

William

10

Anyone notice this??

by TheApostleAK in

jw
friends

have a look at the proclaimers page 232..have a guess what book is picture there?

ak

WTLies

Here's a scan of page 232:

William

17

How to avoid getting DF'd

by WTLies in

jw
friends

as an elder and judge at a judical committee hearing, their main job is supposed to be determining if the person is repentant, not guilty or innocent.

in the jw judicial system the guilt is almost always established prior to the hearing.

they either have two people that saw you commit the sin, or a confession.

WTLies

As an elder and judge at a judical committee hearing, their main job is supposed to be determining if the person is repentant, not guilty or innocent. In the JW judicial system the guilt is almost always established prior to the hearing. They either have two people that saw you commit the sin, or a confession. Then the hearing is called.

In order to determine repentance first we would consider what caused the person to sin in the first place. This is key as it could determine the persons fate no matter how repentant they are. From the answers given by the accused and from the evidence before the committe, we are to ask ourselves if the accused sin was because of Weakness, or Wickeness. Wickness is almost always resullts in DFing. Weakness was always more understandable. Also if a person freely confessed before anyone else brought the incident to the elders, that goes along way sometimes. We would also ask several questions that are designed to tell if the person is repentant such as:

Do you think Jehovah has forgiven you? I suggest not answering this one yes or no, becaue either way could look bad on you. If you say NO, then they reason if you think Jehovah has not forgiven you then he knows in your heart you are not repentant. If you say YES then you have bypassed the committes decision, you went over their head so to speak. Rather I would say something like this:

"Brothers I truly belive if it were not for Jesus' Ransom I would be deserving of death, I thank Jehovah everyday for sending his only begotten son to die for me. I only hope in the future I can show better appreciation for the love that has been shown to me."

Do you think you should be forgiven? You can say YES to this one, but give detailed reasons why and fully accept blame for committing the sin. Also mention how much you've prayed about it, and why you think you are still in Jehovah's favor (this is good for the first question too) mention how he's blessed you as far as starting a new bible study (believe it or not this goes a long way in cases I've sat on)

Do you think you should be disfellowshipped? Again don't asnwer yes or no it's not your place to make that decision but rather say something like:

Brothers especially at a time like this I need to be as close as I can to Jehovah's righteous Organization, I need to be spiritually upbuilt and to spend my time in Jehovah's service so as to avoid the many distractions this old wicked system provides.

If you are disfellowshipped what would you do? You can something simular to the above answer here but always include, how you're going to spend more time in field service. If you committed be a sin of a sexual nature, they might ask:

Did you enjoy it?

Did you have and ogasm?

Did you perform oral sex? Always answer NO to all three questions. I think the reason is self explanatory lol. Here are some questions that the elders ask themselves after you have left the room. The commettee takes the evidence of the case and your reponses to their questions, into consideration as they answer the questions put to them from the Flock book. The asnwers help determine if you are repentant or not. Here are some of the questions the committe must answer. They come right from the KS (flock) book pg 112:

Is there evidence of the person's craving wrongful things
or courting trouble? Or did the person momentarily
succumb to weakness? (Jas. 4:1 ) Was he aware of the gravity of his sin? (Gal. 6:1 )
Had he been admonished that his course was leading
toward danger? (1 Thess. 5:14)
Are there extenuating factors, such as emotional or
mental disorders or having been a victim of some type
of abuse in the past, that should be considered?
Was his confession voluntary, or did he have to be ac-
cused by others before confessing?
Was it a single offense, or was it committed more than
once?

By the way never say you did it more than once, especially if it was sex.

There are many vaious questions the elders ask the accused, the ones I asked here are but a sample and by no means are my answers the only ones that should be given. I am just letting you know what has worked out best in my experience serving on judical committes.

William,

Former member of a Non-Prophet Organization

7

Disfellowshipping Procedure Changes

by WTLies in

jw
friends

has there been any changes as of late in the way the judical committe operates?

i was just in email with a dub that assured me that the elders no longer make decision to disfellowship but instead it's made at the society.

the elders only recommend.

WTLies

In order to determine repentance first we would consider what caused the person to sin in the first place. This is key as it could determine the persons fate no matter how repentant they are. From the answers given by the accused and from the evidence before the committe we are to ask ourselves if the accused sin was because of Weakness, or Wickeness. Wickness is almost always resullts in DFing. Weakness was always more understandable. Also if a person freely confessed before anyone else brought the incident to the elders, that goes along way sometimes. We would also ask several questions that are designed to tell if the person is repentant such as:

Do you think Jehovah has forgiven you? I suggest not answering this one yes or no, becaue either way could look bad on you. If you say NO, then they reason if you think Jehovah has not forgiven you then he knows in your heart you are not repentant. If you say YES then you have bypassed the committes decision, you went over their head so to speak. Rather I would say something like this:

"Brothers I truly belive if it were not for Jesus' Ransom I would be deserving of death, I thank Jehovah everyday for sending his only begotten son to die for me. I only hope in the future I can show better appreciation for the love that has been shown to me."

Do you think you should be forgiven? You can say YES to this one, but give detailed reasons why and fully accept blame for committing the sin. Also mention how much you've prayed about it, and why you think you are still in Jehovah's favor (this is good for the first question too) mention how he's blessed you as far as starting a new bible study (believe it or not this goes a long way in cases I've sat on)

Do you think you should be disfellowshipped? Again don't asnwer yes or no it's not your place to make that decision but rather say something like:

Brothers especially at a time like this I need to be as close as I can to Jehovah's righteous Organization, I need to be spiritually upbuilt and to spend my time in Jehovah's service so as to avoid the many distractions this old wicked system provides.

If you are disfellowshipped what would you do? You can something simular to the above answer here but always include, how you're going to spend more time in field service. If you committed be a sin of a sexual nature, they might ask:

Did you enjoy it?

Did you have and ogasm?

Did you perform oral sex? Always answer NO to all three questions. I think the reason is self explanatory lol. Here are some questions that the elders ask themselves after you have left the room. The commettee takes the evidence of the case and your reponses to their questions, into consideration as they answer the questions put to them from the Flock book. The asnwers help determine if you are repentant or not. Here are some of the questions the committe must answer. They come right from the KS (flock) book pg 112:

Is there evidence of the person's craving wrongful things
or courting trouble? Or did the person momentarily
succumb to weakness? (Jas. 4:1 ) Was he aware of the gravity of his sin? (Gal. 6:1 )
Had he been admonished that his course was leading
toward danger? (1 Thess. 5:14)
Are there extenuating factors, such as emotional or
mental disorders or having been a victim of some type
of abuse in the past, that should be considered?
Was his confession voluntary, or did he have to be ac-
cused by others before confessing?
Was it a single offense, or was it committed more than
once?

By the way never say you did it more than once, especially if it was sex.

There are many vaious questions the elders ask the accused, the ones I asked here are but a sample and by no means are my answers the only ones that should be given. I am just letting you know what has worked out best in my experience serving on judical committes.

William,

Former member of a Non-Prophet Organization

7

Disfellowshipping Procedure Changes

by WTLies in

jw
friends

has there been any changes as of late in the way the judical committe operates?

i was just in email with a dub that assured me that the elders no longer make decision to disfellowship but instead it's made at the society.

the elders only recommend.

WTLies

When I served as an elder back in '97 we would meet with the person and then try to determine if they were repentant of the sin. After a lenghty dicsussion we would invite the person back in the room and inform them of our decision. Of course we would send the appropiate forms off to the Society but it was not for approval, but rather notification of our decision to disfellowship. Now if the person appealed we would wait until after the appeal hearing and if the disfellowshipping was upheld, then we would send off the forms to the Society. I know the Society has the final say on everything but it would be extremely rare for them to overturn a disfellowshipping decision. In my experience anyway. They usually leave that decision up to the local elders, but this person was saying it's now just the oppiset. Now in every case the Soceity makes the decision.

I know there has been a change in the way appeals are done. Appeals used to be handled by the C.O., he would select a appeal committee from elders in a different Congregation if possible and then they and the original committe would meet again with the accused. Now the first part of the appeal process is still the same but if the appeal committe and the original committe do not agree and neither concedes, then both send letter to the Society and then the decision is made there. But the Society making every decision to DF is new to me, but hey I've been THANKFULLY out of the loop

7

Disfellowshipping Procedure Changes

by WTLies in

jw
friends

has there been any changes as of late in the way the judical committe operates?

i was just in email with a dub that assured me that the elders no longer make decision to disfellowship but instead it's made at the society.

the elders only recommend.

WTLies

Has there been any changes as of late in the way the Judical Committe operates? I was just in email with a dub that assured me that the Elders no longer make decision to disfellowship but instead it's made at the Society. The Elders only recommend. Then he sends the matter to the Soceity by mail and then the Society let's the Elders know the decision later.The funny thing about the email was when she said:

"It's better this way because Jehovah makes the decision to disfellowship or not"

It's amazing only a few years ago I used to think the same way about the appointments made for Elder Ministerial Servant and the like. I was comforted in the fact that men did not make appointment but rather Jehovah chose each man personally. The Governing body prayed over my name and Jehovah actually approved me to serve as an Elder! Oh man how naive I was lol. Ok back to the question, has there been any changes or could this dub be talking about procedures in another country?

William

46

Who Makes the BEST Donut (Doughnut)?

by Funchback in

jw
friends

my vote goes to krispy kreme because they make one delicious glazed donut/doughnut!

WTLies

Dunkin' Donuts are the best by far.

One question though, why are glazed donuts in the box at the supermarket always wet? I hate that. Glazed is my favorite donut but I can only get them from the bakery or a donut shop and never from the market because of that problem. What is it donut condensation? lol

William