YoYoMama

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Posts by YoYoMama

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  17

  To YoYo, what is "good"

  by seven006 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yoyo said:.

  <<<i'm sorry i seemed like a jerk with my comments, but you have to understand that i too get pissed when opposers of jehovah's witnesses throw out accusations left and right and never the see the good that we do.>>>.

  the concept of "good" as seen through the eyes of a jw elder has been discussed numerous times on this board.. i'm sure the "good" as you see it only comes from your personal perspective.

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  YoYoMama

  Dave: They disfellowshipped you, that was good.
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  44

  Anti-JW leaflet campaign

  by freeborg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been a reader of this message board for a number of years and this is the first comment i have made in that time.

  i have been part of the wts for 20 years my parents believed they had found the truth when i was 10 and from then on we hung to every word uttered from the platform at the kingdom hall.

  my wife was a witness brought up in the wts all her life so the wts was a massive part of all our familes lives from parents to brothers and sisters.

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  YoYoMama

  Cool, why don't you go door to door?
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  26

  Patriotism isn't only by the flag?

  by YoYoMama in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  patriotism isn't only by the flag?.

  by robyn blumner.

  (c) st. petersburg times, published november 11, 2001. the american flag has truly come into its own in recent weeks, replacing suction-cupped garfield's as the accouterment of choice for our cars.. everywhere you look, the flag is hanging out of car windows-unless there is a football game and the local team flag takes precedence.

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  YoYoMama

  Witnesses are peaceful so that's a dumb question.
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  26

  Patriotism isn't only by the flag?

  by YoYoMama in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  patriotism isn't only by the flag?.

  by robyn blumner.

  (c) st. petersburg times, published november 11, 2001. the american flag has truly come into its own in recent weeks, replacing suction-cupped garfield's as the accouterment of choice for our cars.. everywhere you look, the flag is hanging out of car windows-unless there is a football game and the local team flag takes precedence.

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  YoYoMama

  It's really stupid to say that Witnesses provoked the beatings they received.

  It's like saying that a girl provoked her rape because she was wearing a short skirt.

  Or saying that the father that was killed by another father during their sons hockey game provoked his own death.
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  49

  YoYo: proof?

  by cynicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yoyo says:.

  i wanted to prove to myself that what the watchtower says about apostates is true.. now what a refreshing idea!

  am i correct in assuming that you did this also for other topics the watchtower has opinions on?.

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  YoYoMama

  AlanF, cynicus, and dubla:

  I have two questions for you. If it is true that Jerusalem fell in 586 BCE, then how am I to understand the fulfillment of Daniel's prophesy in Chapter 4?

  Secondly, what is your understanding of the meaning of the "appointed times of the nations". When did it start and when did it end?
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  49

  YoYo: proof?

  by cynicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yoyo says:.

  i wanted to prove to myself that what the watchtower says about apostates is true.. now what a refreshing idea!

  am i correct in assuming that you did this also for other topics the watchtower has opinions on?.

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  YoYoMama

  AlanF, I would like to make a comment on the scriptures in 2 Chronicles:

  : 2 Chronicles 36:20, 21 gave the total years of captivity in Babylon as 70 years.

  No, it does not. It says that the Jews "were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia", and that "all the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete." The scripture does not directly equate a period of captivity with a 70-year period, although the language is consistent with such a view.

  This is true, but verse 21 says “to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.”

  So the 70 years end when the land is no longer desolated. When the Jews arrived in Jerusalem in 537 BCE is when the land was no longer desolated.

  This understanding matches with the next two verses.

  Daniel also understood the 70 year prophesy that way. Daniel 9:2 says “in the first year of his reigning I myself, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of the years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, [namely,] seventy years.”
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  49

  YoYo: proof?

  by cynicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yoyo says:.

  i wanted to prove to myself that what the watchtower says about apostates is true.. now what a refreshing idea!

  am i correct in assuming that you did this also for other topics the watchtower has opinions on?.

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  YoYoMama

  cynicus:

  Can you mention at least two that you consider the most important of the 'many' and why?

  Various sources support the year 539, Diodorus, Africanus, Eusebius.

  1) What sets 539 apart from other dates agreed on by mainstream historians?

  539 is an absolute date. 539 is also a date where sacred and secular historical events coincide. Other dates, like the 586 date for the fall of babylon does not fall into that category.

  2) Do you know how 539 BCE is calculated? You mentioned the Nabonidus chronicle. Exactly HOW does the Nabonidus chronicle point to this year?

  The date is calculated by astronomical observations.

  Here is a translation of the Chronicle in the book: Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament:

  “In the month of Tashritu [Tishri, Hebrew 7th month], when Cyrus attacked the army of Akkad in Opis on the Tigris, the inhabitants of Akkad revolted, but he (Nabonidus) massacred the confused inhabitants. The 14th day, Sippar was seized without battle. Nabonidus fled. The 16th day [October 11-12, 539 B.C.E., Julian, or October 5-6, Gregorian] Gobryas (Ugbaru), the governor of Gutium and the army of Cyrus entered Babylon without battle. Afterwards Nabonidus was arrested in Babylon when he returned (there). . . . In the month of Arahshamnu [Heshvan, Hebrew 8th month], the 3rd day [October 28-29, Julian], Cyrus entered Babylon, green twigs were spread in front of him—the state of ‘Peace’ (Sulmu) was imposed upon the city.”

  3) Why do you accept the Nabonidus chronicle as a truthful archeological artefact?

  It is original and not a copy, also I have no reason to doubt it, for it coincides with Bible chronology.

  4) Are there other archeological artefacts you do or do not accept and if so why?

  Copies that were written or produced after the events are doubtful. Each artefact is to be evaluated seperately.
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  49

  YoYo: proof?

  by cynicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yoyo says:.

  i wanted to prove to myself that what the watchtower says about apostates is true.. now what a refreshing idea!

  am i correct in assuming that you did this also for other topics the watchtower has opinions on?.

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  YoYoMama

  The Nabonidus chronicle stone points to the year 539 BCE as the fall of Babylon. This is just one of the proofs. There are many historical sources that support the year 539 BCE as the fall of Babylon. So it is an "accepted date" without any question (this is not the same for the date of the fall of Babylon according to historical sources). Having this pivotal year is important, we can use it as a starting point for calculations of events backward and forward from that point.

  If we were to use the 586 date that "some" say is the fall of Jerusalem, it would not fit in well with Bible chronology. This is because 70 years later, which is the length of the Jewish captivity, would en in 516 BCE. That date is insignifcant.

  But if we use the pivotal date (the accepted date) of 539 BCE, now Bible chronology makes sence.
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  60

  My interview with Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Danni in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know i said i wouldn't post here again because of the way i made everyone upset over alanf,but i thought you all might want to know what took place and i do need some advice.. .

  yesterday i took a little time out to talk with jehovah's witnesses.

  at first they were more than happy to answer my questions.

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  YoYoMama

  Danni:

  I apologize for giving you the wrong impression. I do care what happens to victims of child abuse. I imagine if it happend to my child, I would go nuts and try to do something to the bastard that touched him, even if he is my brother.

  I am not blind to what is happening in some congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses. Why do I say some? Unfortunately there are some congregations that have elders that do not follow even the instructions given by the Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses. For example, one instruction that elders receive is that when they find out about a child molestation (doesn't matter how old the child is, it could be a 17 year old), the elders should immediately contact the Watchtower Legal Department to receive guidance on what the law expects us to do.

  I will admit that some elders don't even place this call and try to handle it themselves. That is a problem that the Governing Body is trying solve. I can call these problems "Growing Pains", as the religion grows in membership, there are more posibilities of bad elements infiltrating the congregations.

  One case in mind is an individual that confessed to the elders that he had molested his younger sister (8 years old). This had happened 9 years prior to the confession. The girl was now 17 years old. This molestor was disfellowshipped from the congregation. The elders phoned the Legal Department and the instructions were to call the authorities and turn him in. The elders did just that. He was arrested and extradited (spelling?) to the city where the crime happened. He is serving a sentence of 99 years.

  See, in this case the elders did the right thing because they followed the instructions that the Organization gave them. Elders do make mistakes, but these are not tolerated in judicial matters. These will be removed by the Governing Body eventually.

  The problem with many here is that they accuse the whole organization for covering up child molesters. This is just not true. Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law of the land. We have to admit that each individual state has different laws. But the Witnesses will follow what the law says. So the problem is in some individual congregations.

  I, personally, would never cover up a child molester. I don't care if they televise it and say he was one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I would still turn him in. That is the view of the majority of elders within the Organization.

  I'm sorry I seemed like a jerk with my comments, but you have to understand that I too get pissed when Opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses throw out accusations left and right and never the see the good that we do.

  I appreciate your line of work and the way all police officers put their lives on the line every day. Be careful out there.
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  49

  YoYo: proof?

  by cynicus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yoyo says:.

  i wanted to prove to myself that what the watchtower says about apostates is true.. now what a refreshing idea!

  am i correct in assuming that you did this also for other topics the watchtower has opinions on?.

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  YoYoMama

  Thanks dude for your question.

  Actually I have done research on several topics. I researched several Bible commentaries.

  Regarding the 607 BCE date, here is how I understand it:

  There is a pivotal date that historians agree on and that is 539 BCE as the year Babylon fell to the Medes and the Persians (this according to the Nabonidus Chronicle stone). Cyrus was ruler or king at that time. Accroding to Babylonian customs Cyrus' first regnal year would have been from Nisan 538 BCE to Nisan of 537 BCE. Cyrus decreed that the Jews could return to Jerusalem and reestablish themselves there and he gave that decree near the end of 538 BCE or early 537 BCE. Now the trip to Jerusalem from Babylon took about 4 months according to Ezra 7:9. So the Jews arrived Jerusalem during 537 BCE, which was the end of their exile in Babylon.

  2 Chronicles 36:20, 21 gave the total years of captivity in Babylon as 70 years.

  Jeremiah 25:11, 12 also prophesied 70 years of captivity.

  Jeremiah 29:10-14 also mentions 70 years.

  So if have 537 BCE as the returning of the Jews from captivity and then we go back 70 years, we come to the year 607 BCE as the fall of Jerusalem.

  Some historians debate on the date of the fall of Jerusalem. Some say it happened in 586 BCE, some in 587 BCE, others say 595/596 BCE and at one time I read that one historian put it at 605 BCE (cannot remember the source though). Anyhow, non of this dates can be taken as pivotal dates, not like the 539 BCE date.

  So we are left with the Bible vs. historians. Because I believe that the Bible is the word of God, I favor the Bible's view on the fall of Jerusalem. That is why this issue is "an easy one" for me.