Posts by Zechariah

145

Analyzing evolution through Laws of Probability

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

any of you evolutionists ever crunch the numbers?

Zechariah

REM,

Says Rem-And how is this not possible through evolutionary theory? Are you saying that evolutionary theory is falsifiable because species cannot interbreed? That's an interesting argument indeed.

You evolutionists bend over backwards to try to minimize the needed processes that would have to occur for evolution to be responsible for all the marvels of the universe. Not even the minimal requirements are plausible. Here are some side factors you are conveniently ignoring.

Evolutionist find it impossible to believe that there is a God that has no beginning. Yet they have expressed their belief that what started everything was a advanced intelligence inherently present in everything in life that always was. They believe this ever present intelligence was all that was needed to guide and direct the development of all creation.
You try to imply that the original intelligence necessary to begin the process could be so simple it requires only a minimal amount of amino acids, peptides, bata bing, bata ba.. (I'm watching the Godfather :)) If that original organism had to maintain the coding to produce all the varieties and complexities of life for eons to come it would have to be the most detailed complex organism there ever was.

It is not irrelevant. Such extinction is expected in the evolutionary model and is unexpected in a god-creation model. It makes no sense for a diety to create millions of life forms just to have them become extinct. Note, not just many life forms, but 99% of them.

How freely you manipulate stats and ideas to your advantage. 99% of all the lifeforms have become extinct. Surely you have the documentation to back that up. Why should anybody believe anything you say when you feel free to exaggerate in such a manner.

Nothing makes sense but what you want to make sense from your most limited biased viewpoint. You think you can just speak it and its so or get some worldly educated man to vouch for you. The theory lacks any common sense which I suppose this thread about probabilities is really all about. Nothing prevents God from allowing his creation to die for any reason other than your personal ideas of what is moral for God. It is just your opinion definitely not fact.

Why would a god trying to teach humans a lesson in extinction when humans had nothing to do with 99% of the extinctions.

There you go again with your 99%. Just say it and its so. If you were a little more vague so as to say something like many or the vast majority it might be more acceptable. But you to try decieve with specific numbers as if you believe no one would call for your documentation.

That's an awful lot of lost species just to make a point. Seems pretty inefficient for an all-knowing, all-powerful diety.
rem

What universes have you created lately that you can be so opinionated in the proper ethics of a supreme being.

Zechariah

145

Analyzing evolution through Laws of Probability

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

any of you evolutionists ever crunch the numbers?

Zechariah

In regard to probabilities I say: Whats a few quantumkizillion here and there anyway? It all adds up to the same thing. Evolution is impossible.

Zechariah

145

Analyzing evolution through Laws of Probability

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

any of you evolutionists ever crunch the numbers?

Zechariah

Both Rem and Realist have made the blunt statements that Evolution is FACT. Rem admits that as far as original cause is concerned there must still be doubt but their working on it. But after the Original Cause issue (Abiogenesis) its evolution all the way , baby. I just love his arrogance :).

Science has made great progress in the field, but I'm in no position to defend it because there are not enough facts yet.

Maybe in another quantumkizillion years there will be. :)

There are, however, enough facts to support Evolution beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Is another Scopes Monkey Trial necessary to convince you evolution is even more so a theory now than then. In fact I think a trial in a court of law would be very advantageous right now. Let us hope.

Anyone who looks at the facts and denies the reality of Evolution is being intellectually dishonest. They are forcing the observed facts to conform with their ancient religious text. And when that doesn't work, they outright deny the facts. That is intellectual dishonesty in the extreme.

How can you say those that do not believe in Evolution are being dishonest. Creation conforms to their common sense and understanding. It would be intellectual dishonesty to blindly accept the word of someone that is a scientific God who proports to know more than we and should decide for us what is fact.

If the socalled fact of evolution is only evident to those specially trained adherents to this Godless religion then I say do not teach this stuff to my children in school.

Evolution is not a theory that tries to avoid giving creative credit to a personal original cause. It is just a scientific theory that explains the facts well.

Which is it fact or theory? If it is so provable why hasn't it been proven.

It says nothing of the origins of life... only of the origins and changing of species.

You obviously don't believe that the origins and changing of the species that evolution holds out is seriously questioned and unright disputed by intelligent men of science. I'm am desirous of pursuing this question is detail. I will be starting a thread on this later. At that time please tell me what evolutionists have proven as to the origin of the species. Lets have our modern Scopes Monkey trial right here.

it becomes really pointless to discuss science with people who have no idea what they are talking about. i don't blame anyone for nothaving the time to study physics, biology or whatever science. but then they should at least not try to argue against proven scientific facts.
non of the people here who are defending creation have a clue about the facts that support evolution. in fact they have no clue about how science works. otherwise they would keep their rediculous statements to themselfs.
The only thing ridiculous is your constant insistence evolution is fact. Lets give you opportunity as outlined above to show what uninformed, uneducated people we believers in creation are.
i think decency would require that they read the scientific facts and explanations before they post. but unfortunately they are not even willing to read summaries like that provided on talkorigins.
I know what I am sure of and satisfied with believing. When that is the case one is not looking for another answer and don't want to be convinced contrary. I wouldn't even suggest you read a creationist book. I do not think you would be indecent because would choose not to. You likewise are satisfied with your point of view. Your intelligence supports that point of view. But each of our seperate points of view is only credible to ourselves and hopefully to some who are are uncommitted to theirs. My participation in these debates is for the benefit of these individuals.
[quote]the best is probably to leave them in their ignorance and if it makes them really happy let them keep their naive views about the world

What you suggest is wise if your purpose is to change our committed points of view. But for the sake of the general public let us offer up our best cases in support of our points of view.

PS- Pomegranate, your defense has been wonderful giving creationist already a strong case for the trial.

Zechariah

19

Intelligent Design in the Universe

by metatron in

jw
friends

this will be complicated ( if you think any watchtower study article is 'deep', .

give up now).

so, according to popular images, god sits on a throne.

Zechariah

Sorry,

I indeed misunderstood you. We agree.

Zechariah

19

Intelligent Design in the Universe

by metatron in

jw
friends

this will be complicated ( if you think any watchtower study article is 'deep', .

give up now).

so, according to popular images, god sits on a throne.

Zechariah

Ashitaka,

It indeed should remind you of the Bin Laden statement. Not that the statement is any kind of revelation but the absurdity of anyone to try to make the case he could be both dead and alive at the same time. I am just as amused as you by it all. LOL :)

Zechariah

19

Intelligent Design in the Universe

by metatron in

jw
friends

this will be complicated ( if you think any watchtower study article is 'deep', .

give up now).

so, according to popular images, god sits on a throne.

Zechariah

Farkel,

Surely I am not taking lessons in proper etiquette from you. LOL :)

I am fighting fire with fire.

Zechariah

19

Intelligent Design in the Universe

by metatron in

jw
friends

this will be complicated ( if you think any watchtower study article is 'deep', .

give up now).

so, according to popular images, god sits on a throne.

Zechariah

Yes to compare the genetic code to a 'blueprint' is a flawed analogy. It makes people think that we have "a gene for" everything, as if there was a mapping of single genes to every feature in our body and mind. It is not that simple.
The genome is not a blueprint, but more like a cooking receipe. This is Richard Dawkins' analogy, and it is much better. The genes guide the complex biochemical processes that end up creating a phenotype, be it a bacteria, a tree or a human being.
- Jan

Jan,

Forgive me for jumping in when it was not directed to me but minimizing the genetic code as not bein analogous to a blueprint is absurd.

All you need to understand that is to be around a child and know his parents well. It is an amazement always that every physical or spiritual trait of one or the other parent or their foreparents is copied to the child.

There is certainly a coding for every trait however small as to appearance or disposition. Anyone that would tell you different is misinformed or looking to deceive.
The more the world of science and medicine appreciate this the more marvels they can perform in genetically combating disease and deformities.

Zechariah

145

Analyzing evolution through Laws of Probability

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

any of you evolutionists ever crunch the numbers?

Zechariah

Sorry.... Is duplicate post

Edited by - zechariah on 18 October 2002 7:53:44

145

Analyzing evolution through Laws of Probability

by pomegranate in

jw
friends

any of you evolutionists ever crunch the numbers?

Zechariah

Evolutionists in this thread have made the finest possible defense for an indefensible idea.

They have accused creationists of not be educate. to their point of view. Read some science books smetimes they say. The accuse creationists therefore of rejecting the "fact" of evolution out of ignorance.

Certainly that is not true with me. I have read in enough detail all they feel is important and have quickly identified the patterns of their arguments. I have become skilled and value netting things out to the simplest form in order to them make them understandable to both myself and others.

The evolutionists have most cleverly manipulated facts to avoid giving creative credit to an personal original cause. One poster provided a elaborate case that there always was uniformly present intelligence throughout the universe This early lifeform or organism or whatever they want to call it can disinterestedly, independently, and without any outside maintenance grow and evolve slowly and uniformly into life as we know it today.

That was easy to say but is a totally preposterous idea.

As added support to this theory the suggestion was made that spirit forces might be so different that we cannot fathom their nature. It is clear their intent in theorizing such is so there would be no responsibility on their part for crediting life to a interested personal intelligent force. With impunity they can call God lazy and inept for certainly he could not care as he does not exist.

They think its wise to believe this way and they are being well served by their belief. The Bible clarifies the fact that though God is quantum leaps superior to man in form and magnitude he has created us in spirit to be in his image. That means we have his attributes of love, power, wisdom and justice. Basicaly that means we do things for the same reasons God does.

It is by this spirit inheritance from God that we are capable of understanding his purposes . Of course for proper perspective we must elevate our thinking to allow for his quantum leaps greater magnitude. This is why my "Little Computer People" philosophy is of such great value to me. I believe it was a provision from God along with other object lessons he has inspired man to make which helps us understand him and our own lives better.

Therefore the notion that because God is not human he can't be understood by us is wthout merit. My reasoning here alone in this matter solidifies my belief in a personal Creator.

The evolutionists on the board say their rejection of God is nothing personal as he does not really exist. They deny having Child abandonment issues as they feel God has left them. The proof this is indeed the case with them is the necessity they have to make personal attacks and insults on someone they claim doesn't exist. He's abandoned us. He is lazy. He is inept. He is too slow. He is cruel. Who are you fooling guys . You are all hurting desiring a relationship with your heavenly father.

I see this attitude every day with my grandnephew whose mother has abandoned him. He is so angry he disowns her, disrespects her, wont take her phone calls or mail and speaks he harshly of her all the time. His rebellion against his mother is going to severely affect his mental and emotional development. Hes got to accept and forgive his mother for whatever she is and accept whatever positive things she is willing and capable of giving. Hes only hurting himself otherwise. I hope he oneday realizes that before it is too late. So too I make the same plea to you evolutionists.

Zechariah

10

My Most Personal Testimony

by Zechariah in

jw
friends

this post is to me a god sent opportunity to once again deliver accurately the "truth that sets men free".

when last i posted the post you will find below about homosexuals i am aware from responses i received from it people assumed i myself was gay and just trying to excuse my own behavior.

the truth is i am not gay but for sure i related to their situation in that i was and am a lifelong sex addict with the .

Zechariah

Footprints,

Religion and especially JWs use peoples desire to please God to control the behavior of people for the own benefit. Living by the golden rule (rule) is the full requirement of the law. Any abusive behavior obviously breaks that law. But even then God is the judge. This has nothing to do with what law man creates for himself. There is no act by itself that can be classed outside the bounds of love. The circumstances determines whether it is abuse or not. Sex amongst consenting adults is not acts that violate the law of love.

If people choose to misunderstand as many on this board have already chosen to do it is not an excuse me to deny the good news because they choose to misunderstand. If its in someones heart to do evil things he will always find justification. My testimony is for honest hearted seekers of truth.

Zechariah