Posts by Zep

46

Is Global Warming just a load of BS...

by Zep in

i get the impression that a lot of the industrial countries really dont give a sh*t. recently there seems to be a lot of people saying man has nothing to do with it.

or, that its really not that bad.

govenrnments dont seem to care too greatly either, i'm thinking of australia and the usa at the moment.

Zep

Logan said:

"I took an enviornmental biology course last semester and I can say quite confidently that the vast (vast!) majority of scientists believe global warming is a real problem."

--------------

This is what I hear too. Among the scientific community there is very little debate about the fact that Global warming is happening, AND THAT IT IS MAN MADE.

BUT...

The problem seems to be that there is a growing number of people denying that it is either happening or that man is causing it. High profile environmentalist David Bellamy, for example, who's a botanist and not a climatologist for the record, denies that its a problem...and says that it's even a good thing.

As far as Hydrogen goes as an alternative fuel. What I also hear is that its a bit of a scam. You have to burn a lot carbon just to produce one fuel cell?

As far as alternative energy sources are concerned in general, a lot of scientists are saying that it's just not going to be enough to maintain our current rate of consumption THERFORE we will have to turn go NUCLEAR as a sort of stop gap measure before alternative sources become viable. OR we will have to reduce consumption, THIS ESSENTIALLY MEANS JOB LOSSES AND REDUCED LIVING STANDARDS, just for those who only think in terms of modern economics.

On Kyoto, the main problem that countries who refuse to sign Kyoto (Australia and USA) have with the treaty is that it doesn't require growing economies to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions as much as 1st world countries. The retort from these growing economies is that the western industrial countries are the biggest polluters as far as Greenhouse gas is concerned. They have basically used up Earths Green-house gas credit limit themselves and profited very nicely from their use. Growing economies are p*ssed off that they don't get to profit from greenhouse gas use like the west has, and instead have to shoulder the same burden as western countries as far as reducing green house gas emissions are concerned. The US and Australia(countries that refuse to sign Kyoto) are just being selfish is what it breaks down to. They are too concerned about maintaining their market dominance over growing economies.

46

Is Global Warming just a load of BS...

by Zep in

i get the impression that a lot of the industrial countries really dont give a sh*t. recently there seems to be a lot of people saying man has nothing to do with it.

or, that its really not that bad.

govenrnments dont seem to care too greatly either, i'm thinking of australia and the usa at the moment.

Zep

I get the impression that a lot of the industrial countries really dont give a sh*t. Recently there seems to be a lot of people saying man has nothing to do with it. Or, that its really not that bad. Govenrnments dont seem to care too greatly either, I'm thinking of Australia and the USA at the moment. Both refuse to sign Kyoto. To them it seems to be a pain in the ass issue that they dont really want to deal with. Too concerned with GDP figures.

In the mean-time, while we are guzzling gas like there is no tommorrow, some prominient, non-petroleum company aligned scientists are starting to say we might have to switch to Nuclear Power (I dont know if Bush would like that) or dramatically reduce consumption.

What do you say. Is Greehouse just a load of hype about nothing?

75

I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep in

the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

Zep

Sunchild

"Following any spiritual path is about finding one's own most effective, meaningful way of communing with the Divine, both in terms of God however you perceive Him/Her/It and the spark of God that lives within ourselves. Being a Pagan didn't work for me because I didn't experience that, at least not in the same "real" sense that I feel it as a Christian. It's a hard concept to put into words, but it's unmistakable."

Yeah, i get this one. This is good. I was just kiddin' around with the orgies stuff too BTW.

Little toe

Ummm....yeah well, i've completely forgotten what I've written in my last few posts.I cant be bothered trying to thrash it out so it makes sense because it just don't seem that important really. Logan sort of sounds right...I'd like to have the guys vocabulary too.

Fundamentalists(in all their variety) are ignorant and/or dishonest, thats what I'm saying. You can agree or disagree with that claim, thats your choice. But thats how I see it.

Funkyderek

sorry 'bout trying to turn you into cult figure. But i thought it sounded kinda good. Thats my warped sense of humour for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

75

I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep in

the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

Zep

little toe

Yeah,well....

I don't think your reading me correctly.

Sunchild

Sorry, I am curious about your version of Christianity. I could throw heaps of questions at you right now...but I aint got time. I might get around to reading your essay fully too. But really, I feel theres no point, I'm too set in my ways. I'm an atheist, i'm not hugely passionate about Jesus, I don't see it changing.

I do want to ask: whats Christianity got that Paganism doesn't. I've never met a Pagan, atleast a person who'd call themselves a Pagan. It sounds like fun. All those festivals...orgies?????? Christianity must be so dull in comparison!

75

I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep in

the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

Zep

sunchild

this is what funkyderek said:

"I think there's a third way. It's possible to follow (some or all of) the teachings of the biblical character Jesus without believing all of the mythology surrounding him. For some people, to be a Christian is simply to be like Christ - compassionate, contemplative, disdainful of religious hypocrisy. A story doesn't have to be literally true to have resonance."

I think this fits rev Shelby Spong perfectly. As far as I see this is a very broad catagory that FD is proposing.

"But why do non-fundamentlist definitions of Christianity bother you? Is there any specific reason?"

It doesn't bother, in the sense of making me angry, that Spong, or anyone for that matter, call themselves Christians. I just don't relate to it. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to use the FD definition or anything. I'm just too use to the idea that to be a Christian you have to believe in the literal truth of the bible. For me a Christian IS a fundamentalist. They believe that the bible is the word of God and it's pretty much all true and all that stuff happened. Thats my problem.

With FD's definition of a Christian you don't have to believe in any of the bible. You can dismiss it as complete hogwash, that its all made up. But you can still use the stories in the bible as motivational tools in your own life. Like FD says, a story doesn't have to be true to have resonance. With this definition of a Christian, because you don't believe that the bible is literally true, you can also dismiss certain moral tenants of the bible and still claim to be a Christian. You can sort of pick and choose your morality. Where do you draw the line as far as being a Christian is concerned? It's just too murky a definition of a Christian for me. Nah, I prefer to see a Christian as someone who believes in the literal truth of the bible and tries to follow all it's moral direction. Simple!

But...

Ok...I suppose there are 2 types of Christians: Fundamentalist Christians and Funkderek Christians. Both groups are very broad catagories. The Fundamentalists, with respect to their religion, are ignorant and dishonest. They may or may not be ignorant and/or dishonest in other aspects of life. The Funkyderek Christians are far more open minded and dont use the bible as an absolute road map to life. When science or reasoned argument weigh heavily against the bible the Funkyderek Christians dismiss the bible in favor of common sense. It is possible to be both a Funkyderek Christian and Fundamentalist Christian.

So..........long live the Cult of Funky Christians, even though i'm still not 100% comfortable with the definition and will probably still view a lot of them as unbelieving atheists like myself.

75

I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep in

the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

Zep

sunchild

"But you did start this whole thing off by essentially referring to ALL Christians as being of this type, which simply isn't true. You might want to be more careful how you phrase things in the future."

yeah this is true, I should have worded things better. I did actually anticipate someone saying there was a third way to be a Christian. Thats why I added "true believin' " to the title of my post. In hindsight it should have said "fundamentalist".

I dont really relate to the third definition of a Christian; funkydereks definition; Shelby Spongs definition. I know people have every right to use to the definition when talking about themselves, and if it feels right for them thats OK with me. I know Shelby Spong calls himself a Christian. But...I consider him to be a basic unbeliever like myself. He actually has more in common with me than a Fundamentalist. I'm just really not comfortable with the so-called third definition of a Christian.

75

I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep in

the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

Zep

sunchild

Ok...I'll try and be as unambiguous as I can.

Heres what I think...

On a personal level I am over the whole Chritian thing. The fact that I cant believe in a fundamentalist sense causes me no great pain or anguish. It did around 2000 and 2001... nothing in comparison to the stories on this board, but now I'm over it. I am happy being an un-believer and even like it!!!!!!! I dont use this board for therapy or anything!!!!!!

I agree with funkyderek and his assessment that there is a third way to be a Christian. I put rev Shelby Spong in that catagory of Christian. He is the guy who wrote "Saving the bible from fundamentalism. I admire and like the guy(Spong). I, however, could not live the life he leads. I am just no that passionate about the bible story or Christian.

I despise any form of religious fundamentalism. I despise George Bushs view, Pat Robertson's, the Pope's, whatever, there is a long list of fundamentists. Fundamentlism in ANY form(there are varying degrees of it) is akin to lying as far as I'm concerned. I like to be blunt and use a sledgehammer on that kind of Christianity, hence my original post.

You ask me do I believe in some other form of the divine. Not really. If you wish to define "God" or the "Divine" as something within man, then maybe, sometimes I do. I do have vague ideas an opinions but nothing concrete as to want to hang my life on it. I'm interested in things like String theory or M-theory, the new whacky ideas that are coming out of physics. I think in time they may have a great impact on religion. I was interested Jungian psychology for awhile, I think he had some interesting things to say as far as Religion goes. The Bible and Buddhism have wise and interesting things to say as far as life is concerned, and are not devoid of any use. But I feel no need to obsess about one particular holy book or God or religion. I call myself an Atheist, there is just not enough proof for me to believe in any God-like thing in an outer form; and in the case of the bible there is ample prove that that God doesn't exist, atleast in some outer manifestation like some big old guy with a white beard sitting up in heaven somewhere.

I am 32....dont know why that really matters

75

I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep in

the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

Zep

sunchild

"At the risk of offending you or being completely off-base, to me, it sounds as though you're, well, a little scared. Not in the Fundamentalist "Secretly living in fear of Hell" type sense, but in the pure, human, and very understandable "I don't want to be hurt again" sense. "

nah nah nah. I'm over all this religious crap...really.I was only a tempory "so-journer" so to speak in the JW world anyway. I was more depressed when I found out there was no Christian God at all, than when I found out the watchtower was full of BS. But now I'm a relatively happy Atheist

Yeah look, I dont really hate Christians. I dont trust them though! They p*ss me off a lot of the time. I'm just ambivalent towards them. They are a sort of curiousity to me, like cute furry animals are to a zoologist. I think we should study them more, put them in cages and run tests on them to see why they believe such BS!!!!!!!!!....maybe we can take them home as pets and play with a little, and give them as Christmas presents nand stuff?

75

I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep in

the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

Zep

missy04 or Sarah

sorry you feel insulted. I dont really hate Christians. Sometimes i almost envy Christians...sometimes! Sometimes they seem to have a peace that I'll never have, and some do do a lot of good in the community that I can admire. But I dont know, maybe they just hide their hatred better. And I dont think their "peace" has anything to do with Christ, maybe its just maturity. Is it possible to be mature and ignorant at the same time? I don't know!....maybe!

But, you know, I just can't believe in that stuff. For me to be a Christian i'd have to be dishonest to my self. I cant do that! It's just how I feel and I just felt like putting it out there.

Is there a third way to be a Christian????

I can appreciate people like Shelby Spong, who have a different concept of Christianity. They dont believe in the literal truth of the bible but just use it as a sort of springboard to a higher spiritual plane. But to me, they arn't Christians...they seem to be more like me. I'm an atheist, but I wont deny that I'm glad I have read the bible. I think the Gospels have some worth to them especially. I think I did learn stuff from the story of Jesus, and I actually still like the story. But it's still BS in a literal sense. I think all those letters are junk too. The Old Testemant is almost pure hogwash with a few jewels of wisdom scattered throughout, and a few good stories that would make really good hollywood films.

Yeah.... use the bible for the little wisdom it has, but dont take it too seriously! Thats my take.

75

I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep in

the first way is to be completely ignorant.to ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the christian god.

this strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views.

the best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!.

Zep

The first way is to be completely ignorant.To ignore the fact that the bible is a hopelessly flawed man made document, and all other reasoned argument and evidence that points to the non existence of the Christian God. This strategy basically involves living inside mental cocoon and closing your eyes to any alternative views. The best way to employ this tactic is to perform a whole lot repetitive and ritualistic action; a whole lot of head bowing and praying etc... etc....you know the drill!

The second way of being a true Christian is to become completely and utterly intellectually dishonest. You see this in Christians who have become aware of science, philosophy and archaeology come up with the most absurd and convoluted arguments to try and defend the authenticity of the bible and their God. Their thinking basically is the equivalent of trying to put a square peg into round hole...but they keep trying.

I suppose a Christian can employ a combination of the two tactics. But basically there are only 2 ways of being a Christian: be ignorant and/or dishonest.

merry Christmas!!!!!!