Oubliette

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Posts by Oubliette

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  101

  You will never grow old in this current system of things... - Awake, May 22, 1969 p. 15

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  check this out.

  got this bound volume from my dad.. .

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  Oubliette

  My raised-a-JW ex-wife told me about this not long after we were married in the '80s. She was about 10 when that article came out.

  I remember saying something like, "But look: you DID graduate high school and now you're married! They were clearly wrong about this."

  The deer-in-the-headlights look on her face was unforgettable. I had converted to being a JW about 5 years before and knew nothing about these kinds of statements by the WTBTS. I stuffed the cognitive dissonance for a few years until the mounting evidence became so overwhelming I could no longer ignore it.

  Finally, around 2002-2003, when I found out about the UN/NGO debacle I knew this religion was a farce. I tried to get my now ex-wife to wake up and admit that the religion was false. She refused to hear it. I tried to leave with my kids, but they sided with their mother.

  A year or so after I left the religion, my youngest asked me why. I showed him this article. He accused me of being an apostate. I said how can I be an apostate? I'm just showing you what the WTBTS published. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

  That was the last time we spoke. My children continue to shun me even though I am technically a JW in good standing. They know I don't believe it and because I pointed out the hypocrisy of the WT leadership they cut me off.

  Let's review: It's a cult!

  
  
  
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  51

  CO has been coming to my door. Would like 1 or 2 solid and easy arguments.

  by The Laser Viking in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am 6th generation.

  i have been out for a few years.. back story on the situation:.

  i had a co come by while going door-to-door in the neighborhood.

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  Oubliette

  Laser Viking: I am looking for one or two solid and basic points that I can make that would demand an answer/explanation.

  1. Why can't the leaders of this religion decide upon a consistent definition/understanding of the relatively common word: "generation"?
  2. If the current understanding of the FDS is correct, then what was the prior understanding?
  3. Why does the organization now have a TV station similar to the 700 Club and other religions when they have lambasted televangelists for decades?
  4. What would you think of me if I said, "The Watchtower does not have any authority over me," or "I do not answer to the Watchtower"? That's what I thought you'd say. So why then did Gerrit Lösch, the longest standing current member of the Governing Body, state that in a sworn Declaration to the California Superior Court, County of San Diego on February 4th, 2014?
     

  NOTES:
  

  FYI:The Watchtower has promoted six different and contradictory explanations of what the expression "this generation" means.
  

  
  “I do not answer to Watchtower” – Stunning Gerrit Lösch declaration revealed
  http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/i-do-not-answer-to-watchtower-stunning-gerrit-losch-declaration-revealed/comment-page-2
  
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  77

  Neanderthal man

  by scary21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my ex husband and father of my daughter was never baptized but is still a believer in the wt.. a couple years ago we were talking about evolution ( which he does not believe in ) i brought up the subject of the neanderthals and how we all have their dna except africans ( the ones that never left africa ).

  he said neanderthals are apes and not humans and jw's do not teach that they are humans.

  i said i believe they do.. in the life- how did it get here book, under the sub heading " the human family "is says " neanderthal man....... was undoubtedly human.. his response was " they are just talking about what other people believe " ahhhhh .

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  Oubliette

  Here is another take on the homonid/homonin nomenclature from the Australian Museum:
  

  Hominid and hominin – what’s the difference?
  
  The terms ‘hominid’ and ‘hominin’ are frequently used in human evolution.
  
  New definitions
  
  The most commonly used recent definitions are:
  
  Hominid – the group consisting of all modern and extinct Great Apes (that is, modern humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans plus all their immediate ancestors).
  
  Hominin – the group consisting of modern humans, extinct human species and all our immediate ancestors (including members of the genera Homo, Australopithecus, Paranthropus and Ardipithecus).
  

  Hominid and hominin – what’s the difference?

  The terms ‘hominid’ and ‘hominin’ are frequently used in human evolution.

  New definitions

  The most commonly used recent definitions are:

  Hominid – the group consisting of all modern and extinct Great Apes (that is, modern humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orang-utans plus all their immediate ancestors).

  Hominin – the group consisting of modern humans, extinct human species and all our immediate ancestors (including members of the genera Homo, Australopithecus, Paranthropus and Ardipithecus).

  - See more at: http://australianmuseum.net.au/hominid-and-hominin-whats-the-difference#sthash.UpOGtXy4.dpuf
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  77

  Neanderthal man

  by scary21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my ex husband and father of my daughter was never baptized but is still a believer in the wt.. a couple years ago we were talking about evolution ( which he does not believe in ) i brought up the subject of the neanderthals and how we all have their dna except africans ( the ones that never left africa ).

  he said neanderthals are apes and not humans and jw's do not teach that they are humans.

  i said i believe they do.. in the life- how did it get here book, under the sub heading " the human family "is says " neanderthal man....... was undoubtedly human.. his response was " they are just talking about what other people believe " ahhhhh .

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  Oubliette

  cofty: Yes hominid has been promoted to include the chimps, gorillas, orangutans etc. Hominins is more precisely our immediate relatives including all Homo, Australopithecus, Paranthropus and Ardipithecus.
  

  • hominid, hominin, hominoid, human

  
  You may (or may not) find this explanation from the National Geographic Style Manual helpful:
  
  "The broadest of the terms is hominoid, which refers to members of the superfamily Hominoidea, both present and past. Today it comprises humans, the gibbons, and the great apes (orangutan, chimpanzee, and gorilla).

  As taxonomic classification changes with new molecular findings, modern humans and their ancestors are referred to by either of these two terms: hominid (traditional classification) and hominin (new classification). Hominin is the preferred term.

  Traditionally humans and their ancestors have been classified as the family Hominidae (thus hominid). A new classification system, taking into account the close relationship between humans and chimps, places orangutans, gorillas, and chimps together with humans in the family Hominidae (hominids); chimps and humans in the subfamily Homininae (hominines); and humans in the tribe Hominini (hominins). Also, according to this system, australopithecines become australopiths.
  
  (For more details see Wood, Bernard, and Brian G. Richmond, "Human Evolution: Taxonomy and Paleobiology," Journal of Anatomy [2000], vol. 1966, 19-60.)
  
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  22

  You are invited to sit down with the GB members..

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  you have the opportunity to sit and discuss what's on your mind.. what would you tell them??.

  my question, do you men have a heart, how do you sleep at nights??.

  why do you think jehovah pick you to feed the sheep??.

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  Oubliette

  I invited them to a "sit down" a few years ago to discuss a few things. They rudely didn't even respond to my invitation so why would I even honor such a hypothetical invitation with a response?
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  16

  NEW SYSTEM SCHOOL - Exclusively for Dubbite Kids

  by AFRIKANMAN in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.newsystemschool.org/.

  anyone heard of this institution ?

  has it been covered on the forum ?.

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  Oubliette

  As a professional educator, it is notable that there is no information at all--none--on this "school's" website regarding the credentials and/or qualifications of the faculty and administration.

  It's a joke.
  
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  50

  Freedom, Free speech, Censorship, Religion and Tight Pants

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you would need to be living in a cave to not be aware of the turmoil happening in the world with groups like isis murdering cartoonists over their depiction of their prophet and sides being taken to either attack religion or to defend the right to practise it.. the battle lines appear to be drawn between those who believe in freedom and those who would see it curtailed to be replaced with their own version of what is and isnt acceptable.

  most people want freedom and free speech but when choosing it are perhaps unconsciously judging it to only apply to things that they themselves believe in.. we need to be crystal clear what freedom and free speech were really talking about.

  freedom itself is usually easier to define as there are some fundamental principles: you should be allowed to do what you want as long as you are not harming others.

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  Oubliette

  marked
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  29

  Had a major blow out

  by freemindfade in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mom was emailing a group thread of rhetoric about isis and armageddon, and i finally got sick of it and said some pretty intense harsh things about ideals, and wishing for armageddon.

  then it went back and forth like some debate, all the while i am holding back unloading serious ttatt on my family.

  i put a whole bunch of scriptures where the wonderful yahweh committed infanticide.

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  Oubliette

  Cappytan: Breaking faith in the organization has to come before breaking faith in the Bible.

  This is a very important point to keep in mind.

  It seems that once people see the organization for the hypocritical scam that it is, many realize the Bible is also not true.

  Cofty: Sometimes its just too much to bear any longer. Maybe it wasn't wise but at least it was authentic.

  Another important point. They--meaning still-in, Kool-aid drinking JWs--expect us to sit and listen to their endless, inane drivel and never, ever express an independent thought or a disagreement. When it finally becomes to much we often blow a gasket and say too much.

  Been there, done that.
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  77

  Neanderthal man

  by scary21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my ex husband and father of my daughter was never baptized but is still a believer in the wt.. a couple years ago we were talking about evolution ( which he does not believe in ) i brought up the subject of the neanderthals and how we all have their dna except africans ( the ones that never left africa ).

  he said neanderthals are apes and not humans and jw's do not teach that they are humans.

  i said i believe they do.. in the life- how did it get here book, under the sub heading " the human family "is says " neanderthal man....... was undoubtedly human.. his response was " they are just talking about what other people believe " ahhhhh .

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  Oubliette

  Ask a JW, "How do Neandertals figure into the whole Genesis account of Adam and Eve and the concept of a ransom?"

  Prepare for crickets ...
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  25

  When did you realize evolution was true?

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ) which person/source first made you reconsider your position on creationism?.

  ) how long a period of time did it take to fully convince you?.

  ) what books and videos did you read and watch?.

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  Oubliette

  Vidiot: It is, however, inherently contradictory to the belief that Genesis is literal. Which is the real reason the WTS can never accept it.

  Both excellent points. Thanks for pointing them out.