Posts by Oubliette

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Oubliette

HMTM: To be unable to see the unseen does not itself prove that the unseen is a delusion.

That's true enough.

But there's certainly enough other evidence to prove that believing the majority of what is in the Bible is to believe in a delusion.

de·lu·sion
dəˈlo͞oZHən/

noun: delusion; plural noun: delusions
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

59

How the human mind processes facts and faith differently

by EdenOne in

i found this very interesting article by t. m. luhrmann in todays edition of the new york times (i've highlighted a few parts i 've found most interesting):.

it seems weird to deny them.. and yet a broad group of scholars is beginning to demonstrate that religious belief and factual belief are indeed different kinds of mental creatures.

people process evidence differently when they think with a factual mind-set rather than with a religious mind-set.

Oubliette

Eden, you can argue all you want.

The problem with your source is that it combines all sorts of disparate groups, making a very general statement about them, without allowing the reader any way to separate or distinguish them.

I would hope the actual study would make these distinctions explicit clear.

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Oubliette

HMTM, Their laws reflected their time not ours.

Good point.

It doesn't really work to try and judge people from ancient times according to our present knowledge, beliefs and values.

That doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't call their beliefs what they are: harmful delusions.

59

How the human mind processes facts and faith differently

by EdenOne in

i found this very interesting article by t. m. luhrmann in todays edition of the new york times (i've highlighted a few parts i 've found most interesting):.

it seems weird to deny them.. and yet a broad group of scholars is beginning to demonstrate that religious belief and factual belief are indeed different kinds of mental creatures.

people process evidence differently when they think with a factual mind-set rather than with a religious mind-set.

Oubliette

"supernatual reasoning"

Now THERE'S an oxymoron!!!

Eden, thank for the reference. I gave it a look!

It's only a brief summary of a research study. Only scant details are mentioned as to the demographics and they are lumped together in a way that makes it impossible to really analyze the thesis of the article.

However, there was this very telling quote. Notice what it said about one large group in the study.

"They also conducted a study with 366 people in South Africa, where biomedical and traditional healing practices are both widely available. ... Yet supernatural explanations, such as witchcraft, also were frequently supported among the children and universally among adults." - Emphasis added

Um, yeah!

Although the specifics of the demographics of this group are not revealed, they are most certainly NOT typical of adults in industrialized countries anywhere, particularly in the West.

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Oubliette

EdenOne: It may not make rational sense, of course. But you're not taking into account that belief is also a way that our brain has to cope with physical and mental pain.

You aren't quoting me. You are re-quoting my quote of Bertrand Russell.

So it's Mr. Russell you have the disagreement with, not me!

I'm sorry if it wasn't clear that was all Bertrand.

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Oubliette

GT: Is the bible a fundamentally Jewish or Christian document?

Jesus was a Jew.

You knew that, right?

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Oubliette

CIF: Therefore I stated I have no problem understanding your position.

No. You said, "Why should I have any problem with them or either of you?"

Those are not the same thing.

One is a statement, the other a question. If you had actually made the statement you just wrote, I would have responded differently, probably thanking you.

But since you asked a question I felt I had to respond, especially because it implied a problem no one had raised.

CIF: Sheesh, I hate this place. I feel like it's 1980-something and I've been dragged before the JW elders who are dissecting my words all over again. Forget I said anything.

Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps if you choose your words with more clarity. Apparently you often write things in a way that don't mean what you intend.

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Oubliette

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Oubliette

CIF: Why should I have any problem with them or either of you?

You shouldn't. Who said you did?

94

Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option

by cofty in

it's to their credit that many modern christians prefer the jesus of the gospels to the god of the old testament.. ot god is an embarrassment.

i am not going to list his multitude of moral crimes here but my personal favourite is his brilliant idea that a girl who is raped must marry her rapist.

it's not his biggest crime but it demonstrates a disregard for human feelings that is beyond the comprehension of every moral person.

Oubliette

Here's a link to the interview:

Why are you not a Christian?

My favorite part @ 0:18 - 3:25

Q: Do you think there's a practical reason for having a religious belief ?

A: Well there can't be a practical reason for believing what isn't true! … Either a thing is true or it isn't. If it is true you should believe it, and if it isn't you shouldn't. And if you can't find out whether it's true or whether isn't you should suspend judgment.

It seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you think it's useful and not because you think it's true.