Posts by Oubliette

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

Oubliette

opusdei1972, thank you for showing clear evidence from the WTBTS's own literature that FT is completely wrong.

I'm sure it did not take you a great deal of time or effort to find these quotes.

I would ask that you consider this next time you are tempted to "refute" a JW apologist on this forum: When they make ridiculous claims, demand that they prove those claims.

Twice I asked FT to back up his assertions. He completely ignored my first request for proof. His response to my second request was, "no I'm not going to spend my entire off day to provide you the exact page numbers of each change."

He didn't provide quotes because he couldn't. Lurkers and fence-sitters need to see this.

You're quotations completely refuting his nonsense securely put the last nails in the coffin regarding his ridiculous claims.

You cannot defend the indefensible.

53

Spirituality

by Jonathan Drake in

if you are a current practitioner of some religious faith i would appreciate it if you abstained from this thread entirely.

im curious if anyone has had what could be discribed as a spiritual experience.

i'm currently reading sam harris book waking up and it's very good so far.

Oubliette

JD, I'm glad you are attempting these exercises and exploring what it means to be conscious and self-aware.

Do not confuse the fact that some things are involuntary with the idea that all things are involuntary.

31

Bro Loesch's talk.

by New day in

recently i heard through video link to our kh a talk by bro loesch where he attacked university study (again) but this time he prefaced his remarks by saying, and i quote, "the faithful slave does not forbid you to go to university.

" so this was a bad start as his following remarks made it clear that this was just a way of seeming reasonable while basically saying that we shouldn't do it.

he went on to use an illustration i think he has used before about a man with ocd who decided to kill himself.

Oubliette

"I do not answer to Watchtower. … Watchtower does not have, and never has had, any authority over me" - Declaration of Gerrit Lösch to the Superior Court of the State of California, County of San Diego, signed and dated the 4th day of February 2014

15

Any good answers at this Sunday's WT?

by Lemonp in

obviously this weeks' wt has been part 3 of big changes in the doctrine.

at the end i answered up saying along the lines of: "as we can see from the illustration box, when it comes to the reward being given to the slaves, divine appointment was not given in 1919. this will happen in future when the anointed get taken before armageddon".

i couldn't bring myself to say "raptured at armageddon" as i think people might have taken a closer look at me...but it felt good to call out publicly the bull sh#t date of 1919 .

Oubliette

TornInTwo: It seems to me that the GB used the illustration to promote themselves and to promote the preaching work of JWs, without clear scriptural backing for either.

Bingo!

Let's review: It's a cult!

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

Oubliette

FT,
no I'm not going to spend my entire off day to provide you the exact page numbers of each change

Not one of the points you made in your previous post is an accurate description of any of the "changes" made by the WT leadership. I asked you for two specific things and you "responded" with a dozen different things and failed to give both the exact quotations and a reference.

Typical evasive bullshit. You're just like the GB. You give what appears to be an answer, but really isn't.

BTW, if you ever find yourself in a Judicial Committee, I suggest you try demonstrating your "repentance" using the language the WTBTS uses when it "admits its mistakes." See how that works for you.

15

Any good answers at this Sunday's WT?

by Lemonp in

obviously this weeks' wt has been part 3 of big changes in the doctrine.

at the end i answered up saying along the lines of: "as we can see from the illustration box, when it comes to the reward being given to the slaves, divine appointment was not given in 1919. this will happen in future when the anointed get taken before armageddon".

i couldn't bring myself to say "raptured at armageddon" as i think people might have taken a closer look at me...but it felt good to call out publicly the bull sh#t date of 1919 .

Oubliette

Splash: The article starts by saying that this parable of the talents applies to the anointed.

Wouldn't that be applying the type/antitype method of interpretation they JUST said they don't do anymore!

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

Oubliette

Steve2: The mistake here, as on other similar threads before, is to assume that the poster whose OP has elicited so many responses is actually going through these one by one, thoughtfully weighing up the arguments.

I don't know if your comments are in relation to my most recent post and others like them, but I don't post expecting a response from FT.

I post for the benefit of lurkers.

People like FT never respond to questions like mine for a very simple reason. If they did, it would only prove my point. Their silence is a second best approximation of acknowledgement.

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

Oubliette

Fusion Theism, on the first page of this thread I asked you to respond to two points:

Just exactly what "positive" changes have they made recently? Please be specific, emphasizing how each and every said change is in fact "positive."
Could you please provide quotes and references in where "the Society" has "admitted to errors" and that "they've been wrong in big ways." I would appreciate seeing those exact words, or even anything remotely close to that, in print in a WTBTS publication as I am unaware of "the Society" or any of their high-level representatives (ie: the Governing Body members) ever making such an honest admission.

-

We are now on page seven and you have yet to respond. Why is that?

Oubliette

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

Oubliette

Pete Zahut: They condemn other religions for teaching falsehoods yet have done the same thing themselves from the very beginning. Unlike the Catholics, they have never come out and formally apologized for the falsehoods and wrongdoings of those who went before them nor for the ones they taught or committed themselves.

Exactly!

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

Oubliette

Island Man: Do you think Watchower is unaware that 607 BCE is false? They know it's false! Carl Johnson wrote a book logically showing its false and sent them a copy.

You forgot to mention that Johnson was disfellowshipped as a result of his efforts to correct this false teaching.

THAT is how the WT leadership responds to genuine efforts from its members to correct errors.

Let's review: It's a cult!