Oubliette

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Posts by Oubliette

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  41

  How are Pro-JW sites handling the RC situation ???

  by RubaDub in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  sorry as this topic may have been covered many times but any thoughts or links to other topics on how the pro-jw websites are commenting on this.. rub a dub.

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  Oubliette

  millie210: JWLeaks, for some reason, that link isnt working.

  I believe JWLeaks is being ironic. When I clicked on his/her link I got a message on jw.org that reads:

  "Sorry, the page you are looking for cannot be found."
  
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  24

  Bumbling idiots..... RC & JW broadcast

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the contributing factors to me leaving was the realisation we were being led by idiots.

  bethel life reinforced that, middle aged ego's trying to suck up to brooklyn.

  ray franz book was a final nail for me, because he described the same incompetence along with the same ego's.

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  Oubliette

  S&R: One of the contributing factors to me leaving was the realisation we were being led by idiots.

  Yes, exactly!

  When the GB members kept a low profile, it was easy to imagine them as being qualified spiritual leaders. But when they began seeking prominence that illusion quickly vanished.

  Over the years, I've met Lösch after he gave a part at a Circuit Assembly, heard Herd "teach" at an Elders' School and endured Lett numerous times at District Conventions.

  The collective experience has overwhelmingly demonstrated that these men are exactly as S&R describes them in his OP: bumbling fools.

  To make it worse, Herd is clearly a small-minded bigot.

  Their recent foray into "television" repeatedly confirms what poor leaders they are, Anthony Morris in particular. What a repulsive human being he is!

  Clearly, no God in his/her/its right mind would ever pick these men to represent him, at least not a god that I'd worship!

  Let's review: It's a cult!
  
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  16

  "You Became So Beloved to Us"

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  pixel and wifibandit present, in its original form, gmb_e.mp4 "you became so beloved to us".

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odfdkl8lwpk.

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  Oubliette

  JGB: The WT should 'throw-in-the-towel' and address any and all future communiques as follows: "TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS, WIFIBANDIT AND PIXEL."

  Hahahahahahahha!
  

  The truth is, we here on JWN are better informed than most elders and usually find out the latest before they do!
  
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  82

  Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  recently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.

  i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.

  first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.

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  Oubliette

  Marvin: The point is that a person can have a passion for a subject without having a passion for a particular finding based on research of that subject.

  I understand and agree in theory. The problem again is that in practice we are dealing with humans. And the fact is that, with us, it just ain't that easy because of the way we are made.

  Have you read Mistakes Were Made referenced above (see page 4)? I think you'd find it a fascinating and informative read.
  
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  82

  Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  recently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.

  i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.

  first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.

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  Oubliette

  Marvin Shilmer: The best way to avoid confirmation bias is to release oneself from caring about the outcome

  Oh, is that all?

  I agree with you, but know from tons of experience that you've placed a pretty tall order and most folks just ain't gonna do it.

  The other problem is this: if you don't care about the outcome, you likely won't do the work to find it.
  
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  20

  The 1006 list is on the Royal Commission Website!!!!

  by Petraglyph in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  it seems they do have a database!

  !you can view it here on the royal commission website:.

  http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

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  Oubliette

  Petraglyph, thanks for taking the time to do a more accurate analysis.

  We are getting very close to a 2:1 ratio. Taking into consideration the assumptions you made I think it is safe to say in every day parlance that it is roughly a 2:1 ratio and that there are thousands of victims.

  This bears out, a very important point (which I posted previously) that we should keep in mind: the majority of sexual abusers do not limit themselves to a single victim. Dr. Monica Applewhite acknowledged that in her testimony. Also, it is likely that there are abusers whom the WT Australia Branch is unaware. This means that the 1,006 known abusers represent a much larger number of victims. How many, it is impossible to know.

  Let's extrapolate this to the Worldwide Work, shall we?

  There were 66,484 publishers in Australia last year and 7,867,958 average publishers total (source: 2015 Yearbook).

  A little quick math suggests that there likely has been well over 100,000 abusers in the organization over the last half century. This suggests that there has been many hundreds of victims of their abuse, possibly in the millions!

  Obviously, this mental exercise involves a certain amount of conjecture and speculation, but I don't believe there is any valid reason to believe the problem in Australia is unique or significantly different to any other area or culture. Are Australians more depraved than other people? Nothing suggests this. On the contrary, that the Australian government is leading the way in addressing it suggests the opposite, if anything.
  

  Also, I have not made any attempts to adjust for various growth rates of the religion throughout the world over the last 50 years. But I don't think that is important or necessary to understand the point.
  

  What is important is to allow the significance of the known facts to really sink in. Take some time with this and ponder what it really says about this religion, particularly in light of its history of pointing their finger at other religions meanwhile denying their own moral failing. Really consider the magnitude of this problem.
  

  So, let's review: It's not just a cult, it is one of the worst, most damaging and destructive religious cults in the history of mankind, one which needlessly puts vulnerable children at risk and historically has done precious little, if anything, to protect them!

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  20

  The 1006 list is on the Royal Commission Website!!!!

  by Petraglyph in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  it seems they do have a database!

  !you can view it here on the royal commission website:.

  http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

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  Oubliette

  Wow, quite a few Elders and Ministerial Servants on the list.
  

  1,730 victims / 1,006 abusers = 1.72/1 ratio
  
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  82

  Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  recently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.

  i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.

  first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.

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  Oubliette

  Vidqun: But how to avoid confirmation bias?

  Great question, and a really hard thing to do. One of the best ways to approach this problem is to learn to recognize it in others and then to work to see it in ourselves. That takes a lot of hard work, honesty and self-awareness. Most people are simply too lazy and afraid to do it.

  The peer review process can also be of help, maybe. Ironically, it can often have the opposite affect. Other people usually are more than glad to point out our own biases. Sadly, many will do so in brutal, unkind ways. It takes a tough person that really wants to know what is true to survive that process. Unfortunately, that process can cause many people to "double-down" on their biased beliefs and hold onto them even more firmly.

  There's a great book on the subject I'd like to recommend. Here's a link to a thread I started on this book a while back:

  Mistakes Were Made, But Not by Me (by Tavris and Aronson)
  

  
  

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  82

  Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  recently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.

  i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.

  first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.

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  Oubliette

  andrekish: Thanks for list. To me they will be very, very useful. Can I refer you to a post I put on a little earlier on this topic by Vivianne and ask you opinion after using your list of skills above.

  You're welcome. I'll look at your post.
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  82

  Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  recently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.

  i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.

  first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.

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  Oubliette

  Great thread!

  Can't wait to really read it in detail. Until then, here is a short list of critical thinking skills that everyone should have in their toolkit:

  • Analyzing for assumptions
  • Analyzing evidence
  • Analyzing arguments (the validity of statements)
  • Asking effective questions
  • Classifying
  • Comparing and contrasting
  • Deductive reasoning
    
  • Evaluating sources (for reliability and bias)
  • Finding causes
  • Inductive reasoning (generalizing)
    
  • Inferring
  • Organizing information
  • Predicting (scientific predictions, not astrology or palm reading, in case you were wondering)
  • Problem solving
  • Reasoning by analogy
  • Recognizing patterns
  • Synthesizing
    
  • Understanding models