Oubliette

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Posts by Oubliette

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  55

  SHUNNING - Unchristian Psychological Torture

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some time ago, i wrote an extensive article on shunning and published it on my website.

  since that website had views on doctrinal matters that no longer reflect my current stand, i took the website down.

  however, my views on this matter are still current, and for the benefit of everyone here, i'm going to post the article here.

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  Oubliette

  Wow, great work and thanks for sharing, Eden?

  Would you consider putting it all into one Google doc to make it easier to read?

  Thanks,

  Oubliette
  
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  11

  Happy Thanksgiving!

  by Oubliette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  happy thanksgiving everyone!

  i know that we are an international group here and that thanksgiving is an american holiday (and not even all of us in the us celebrate it), but i thought it would be nice to have a thread dedicated to sharing the many things we have to be thankful for: .

  i am thankful for: .

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  Oubliette

  Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

  I know that we are an international group here and that Thanksgiving is an American holiday (and not even all of us in the US celebrate it), but I thought it would be nice to have a thread dedicated to sharing the many things we have to be thankful for:

  I am thankful for:

  • Friends and family that love me for WHO I am and not WHAT I pretend to believe,
  • Having a great job doing something I love: teaching young people how to learn and think for themselves
  • A beautiful wife that loves me
  • Living in a time a place where I have a great deal of freedom to pursue the things I want
    

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  Are there things I want that I do not have? You betcha, but that is a topic for another day. Today I am focusing on the good things in my life.

  What are you thankful for?
  
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  45

  Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for sex assaults on schoolgirl

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is becoming more common.

  this is from the last part of the article: .

  "this was about sexual gratification and you are a hypocrite because you became an elder and you investigated a sexual matter even with this in your sexual background.".

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  Oubliette

  Jesus, Simon. Learn to stay on topic. You are really contentious lately.
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  45

  Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for sex assaults on schoolgirl

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is becoming more common.

  this is from the last part of the article: .

  "this was about sexual gratification and you are a hypocrite because you became an elder and you investigated a sexual matter even with this in your sexual background.".

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  Oubliette

  I really don't care if you don't believe that people in general don't like the idea of pedophiles getting off free.

  Wow, you sure got me wrong! I've found most people, myself included, are repulsed by pedophiles and find it one of the most egregious and disgusting crimes there is.
  

  Where do you get these crazy ideas?
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  45

  Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for sex assaults on schoolgirl

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is becoming more common.

  this is from the last part of the article: .

  "this was about sexual gratification and you are a hypocrite because you became an elder and you investigated a sexual matter even with this in your sexual background.".

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  Oubliette

  If you're saying he should be forgiven because "it was a long time ago" then are you saying the WTS should be as well?

  I'm not saying either of those things. How many times do I have to tell you that?

  Sorry, I was going off your comments that seemed to be suggesting "well, it was a long time ago, let's forgive and forget".

  And:
  

  which sounded to me like you think our "outrage over the institutional covering up of crimes ... by the WTS" was clouding our judgement and making us want to be too harsh on actual offenders. That seemed to be suggesting the WTS crime was worse than his".

  The only "seeming" and/or "suggesting" is in your mind.

  I did NOT say or even suggest any of the things you think I did.
  

  Please, do NOT read into my words things I did not say nor did I intend. If you would like clarification, just ask. I try to be clear, but can allow that no matter how much I try to express my intended meaning, I might not always be successful.

  That being said, I am very frustrated by the repeated number of times on this thread and others that you have interpreted my words to mean one thing and then when I explicitly state that I did not mean that, never thought it and don't believe it you refuse to accept that but continue on with things like, "well you seemed to be suggesting..."

  Please stop. If you want clarification, just ask. When I clarify, accept it and then drop it, graciously if you can.
  
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  43

  Why Rational People Buy Into Conspiracy Theories?

  by adjusted knowledge in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife is taking a literature course at a local college.

  this was her final topic of the semester: why rational people buy into conspiracy theories?i automatically thought of this site and of jws.

  the jws i knew, were the kind of people that would believe in conspiracy theories, and i noticed a small following on this site.. the article that was referenced for this course was: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazine/why-rational-people-buy-into-conspiracy-theories.html?_r=0.

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  Oubliette

  As intriguing as the OP's question is, the inverse is just as interesting and particularly relevant to those of us with loved ones still in the JW cult:

  Why do rational people fail to see conspiracies and corruption when the evidence is overwhelming and right in front to them?

  The same mechanisms apply:

  • Confirmation bias
  • Vulnerability
  • Confusion
  • Loss of security
  • A challenged world view with resultant fear and anxiety
    
  • Desire to preserve our present beliefs

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  Most people simply do not have what it takes to be sincere and open-minded enough to objectively look at the conflicting evidence and then make up their own minds about what reality is.

  If you ever hear someone say, "I refuse to believe .... [fill in the blank]," then you can be pretty sure that the evidence coming their way is more than their fragile psyche can presently handle.
  

  It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority. - Benjamin Franklin

  Denial. It ain't a river in Egypt!
  
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  45

  Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for sex assaults on schoolgirl

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is becoming more common.

  this is from the last part of the article: .

  "this was about sexual gratification and you are a hypocrite because you became an elder and you investigated a sexual matter even with this in your sexual background.".

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  Oubliette

  Pedos don't change, in my professional experience. They can't.

  There certainly is abundant evidence to support that.

  This is why I asked earlier if anyone had knowledge of the age of the girl mentioned in the article referenced in the OP.

  Since the perp was a young man at the time, between 19 and 21, it would certainly be a very different thing if the girl was 7 as opposed to 17. As far as I could tell, the article didn't say or give any clear indication.

  In the US, statutory rape laws would apply in either case, but the circumstances and motivations would be clearly very different. It would be helpful to have some idea to have an informed opinion about the matter.
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  45

  Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for sex assaults on schoolgirl

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is becoming more common.

  this is from the last part of the article: .

  "this was about sexual gratification and you are a hypocrite because you became an elder and you investigated a sexual matter even with this in your sexual background.".

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  Oubliette

  people are generally unhappy when it looks like someone avoids even having to answer the accusations all based on some arbitrary time limit.

  Could you please cite a source for this statement? Has there been some kind of scientific study done?

  How and where was it conducted?

  Did the participants have different feelings of dissatisfaction or unhappiness with current statute of limitations laws depending on:

  • The particular type of crime committed?
    
  • Length of time since its commission?
  • Age of the criminal at the time of the crime?
    
  • Lifestyle of the perpetrator since the commission of the crime?
  • How the crime came to be known?

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  I'd be very interested in reading such a study.
  
  
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  45

  Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for sex assaults on schoolgirl

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is becoming more common.

  this is from the last part of the article: .

  "this was about sexual gratification and you are a hypocrite because you became an elder and you investigated a sexual matter even with this in your sexual background.".

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  Oubliette

  You seem to be of the opinion that the cover-up of the crime is worse than the crime itself.

  This perception is only in your mind. I most certainly DO NOT hold the opinion you have stated above.
  

  Once again, I never said anything to even hint at that. I merely said they are separate issues. Please do not misconstrue my words.
  

  So, if you want to let-off the perpetrator then the same surely applies to the cover up as well.

  I do NOT want to "let-off the perpetrator." Again, I never said such a thing. Please desist from claiming I have made statements which I have not made.

  Also, your conclusion does not follow from your premise. They are separate issues and should be handled separately. I did say that previously in this thread.
  

  Simon, You have a recurring tendency to accuse me of holding opinions, thoughts and beliefs which I do not have and have never expressed, and when I explicitly state I do not hold these ideas you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge that. It's rather annoying.
  

  Sorry, I just don't agree with where your reasoning inevitably leads.

  That's okay, it's not my reasoning, it's yours. You are disagreeing with your own misperceptions about things you imagine I think, but which I do not.

  Please stop.
  
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  45

  Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder jailed for sex assaults on schoolgirl

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is becoming more common.

  this is from the last part of the article: .

  "this was about sexual gratification and you are a hypocrite because you became an elder and you investigated a sexual matter even with this in your sexual background.".

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  Oubliette

  JWD: the jw system would have still revictimized the victim and protected the perp, while the worldly system would be more protective of victim.

  Exactly!