Posts by Oubliette

4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
a. Identity guilt
b. You are not living up to your potential
c. Your family is deficient
d. Your past is suspect
e. Your affiliations are unwise
f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
g. Social guilt
h. Historical guilt

Need I say more?

Let's review: It's a cult!

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Hebrews 10:25

by millie210 in

i was asked recently by a still in friend (it was meant sincerely not sarcastically).

"but what do you do with that scripture so far as not attending meetings?".

i typed hebrews 10:25 in to the search bar but didnt get much.. .

Oubliette

Hoser: am surprised that they never changed the wording for the new new world translation to "do not miss the meetings".

But they did!

Here's what the rNWT says:

And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.

The previous NWT did not say "meeting together," but said "gathering ourselves together."

When you consider what they were able to convince us the old wording meant, you can see how important the not-too-subtle rewording is to shoring up this non-biblical interpretation.

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Hebrews 10:25

by millie210 in

i was asked recently by a still in friend (it was meant sincerely not sarcastically).

"but what do you do with that scripture so far as not attending meetings?".

i typed hebrews 10:25 in to the search bar but didnt get much.. .

Oubliette

millie210: I appreciate you doing so much work for me Oubliette - you are

You are most welcome.

Remember, I first wrote this almost a year ago in response to a beloved, but still-in, sister's well-intentioned, but misguided cult-induced nagging.

I'm just sharing because it fits so well.

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Hebrews 10:25

by millie210 in

i was asked recently by a still in friend (it was meant sincerely not sarcastically).

"but what do you do with that scripture so far as not attending meetings?".

i typed hebrews 10:25 in to the search bar but didnt get much.. .

Oubliette

Godsendconspirator, actually this is a great strategy for faders. Whenever anyone tries to pressure you to return to the meetings, simply invite them out socially for a cup of coffee or lunch or whatever.

Very, very few will take you up on the offer if you're not regularly attending meetings. It will make your fade go much more smoothly and more quickly.

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A Breath of Fresh Air... (Spoiler Alert!)

by Gustv Cintrn in

hi!.

enjoy..... www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/denmark/bloodless-surgery/.

gc.

Oubliette

BOC: What they fail to mention is that the actual doctors and scientists who came up with bloodless procedures are members of false religion

And they have all pursued Higher Education!

44

Hebrews 10:25

by millie210 in

i was asked recently by a still in friend (it was meant sincerely not sarcastically).

"but what do you do with that scripture so far as not attending meetings?".

i typed hebrews 10:25 in to the search bar but didnt get much.. .

Oubliette

Don't Miss the Meetings - Hebrews 10:24, 25 Re-examined:

(Originally posted 1/20/14): I recently got an unsolicited lecture from a well-intentioned but nevertheless misguided JW friend. The gist of it was that I needed to go to all the meetings or I would miss out on "everlasting life."

I responded that I do not need to go to meetings to have a relationship with God. The predictable response was, "I could show you a million Watchtowers that say you do!"

I naturally concurred, saying, "I'm sure you could. But can you prove that from the Bible?"

After an awkward silence, my friend predictably went for the JW "go-to" scripture about Meeting Attendance: Hebrews 10:24, 25. I responsed, "Of course. Why don't you read it again and tell me what it actually SAYS, and not what you think it MEANS."

And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.

Of course JWs believe this verse is an injunction to meet at the Kingdom Hall several times a week for their regular indoctrination sessions. But it simply does not say that. According to the rNEW, it DOES say Christians should be "meeting together" but it does not proscribe when, where or how often. (The previous NWT read, "gathering of ourselves together." That's different, no?)

What about the cross-references? What light do they shed on the subject? Let's look:

In the rNWT there are two marginal references next to the phrase "meeting together." They are:

Deuteronomy 31:12: Gather the people together, the men, the women, the children, and your foreign resident who is within your cities, in order that they may listen and learn about and fear Jehovah your God and take care to carry out all the words of this Law.

Acts 2:42: And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles, to associating together, to the taking of meals, and to prayers.

Note: the previous NWT had two more cross references, but they don't help either.

First, although the scripture at Deuteronomy does in fact contain a "command" for all of Israel to "gather together," a quick perusal of the context shows that this was to be done once every seven years! (Deut. 31:9-12). It simply does NOT support the WT's cult practice of multiple weekly meetings. It just doesn't.

What about Acts 2:42? This, of course, is part of the account of the unique events at Pentecost. When a person reads the verses for what they say without trying to impose on them any pre-existing ideas, a clear picture emerges of a group of people spending time together in a variety of activities. Included in this is the "taking of meals," which as verse 46 points out was in different, private homes. These people were excited to spend time together and they did it because they wanted to, not because they felt some sort of obligation. Either way, it was a unique situation that in no way set a precedent for a religious requirement of multiple meetings every week. And the context most certainly does not suggest that when Christians lived their normal lives that they were "spiritually weak" and subject to death from God for not "going to the meetings." This idea just is not in the Bible.

Again, the previous NWT did not say "meeting together," but said "gathering ourselves together." Here is another example of the GB/New World Translation Committee changing the scriptures to try and support their pre-existing beliefs.

All this being said, my friend continued to try and press the idea that I could not have a relationship with God if I didn't "go to all the meetings." I said, "One word: Cornelius."

I then explained that, like Cornelius, I had a relationship with God thirty years ago--before I became a JW! When I was disfellowshipped for several years, I rebuilt my spirituality and my relationship with God brick-by-brick, trowelling the mortar by myself. I do NOT need to go to any meetings to have a relationship with God!

She said, "Are you saying we don't need to go to the meetings?"

Now, not wanting to be branded an apostate, I hedged. "No I did NOT say that. Please do not put words in my mouth or misconstrue my words. I simply said that I do not need to go to meetings to have a relationship with God. No one does. That's what the Bible teaches."

I then said, "Look, this is obviously upsetting you. Why don't we just drop it for now." And so we did.

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BTW, the two other verses that used to be used as references in the old NWT also do not support the WT/JW teaching on mandatory meeting attendance:

Matthew 18:20 - Jesus: "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."

You only need 2 or 3 Christians for Jesus to be "present." No specific directions as to time, place, frequency or manner of gathering are mentioned or even implied.

Acts 20:8 - So there were quite a few lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together.

This is the account in Troas where Paul gave a speech that apparently was so long and so boring that a young man fell asleep and fell out of a window:

Acts 20:7, 9 - On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to have a meal, Paul began addressing them, as he was going to depart the next day; and he prolonged his speech until midnight. ... Seated at the window, a young man named Eutychus sank into a deep sleep while Paul kept talking, and overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was picked up dead.

Again, this was a one-off situation, in a private home where everyone was gathered for a meal.

In summary, when we read the Bible for what it actually says, instead of trying to interpret it to support what we think it means, a very different understanding often comes to light.

BTW, don't forget to incite to love and fine works!

And whatever you do, no long-winded speeches before dinner!!!

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