Cofty: They can't wait for the "persecution".
Tell them to come over to my house. I'll give 'em an advance preview!
Oubliette
JoinedPosts by Oubliette
-
46
WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
.
basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
-
-
Oubliette
-
556
The Watchtower are Right About Blood...
by cofty in... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.
it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.
they take pride in obedience.
-
-
Oubliette
Cofty and Faye, you both raise very important points.
It's interesting that there are a wide variety of "First Issues" that get those of us that have awaken to begin questioning JW doctrine.
The blood doctrine wasn't a big issue for me as it was for you. I do remember having a huge--make that HUGE--argument with my now ex-wife about it.
When the WTBTS society changed its policy to allowing fractions I was immediately on board, knowing full well that whole blood transfusions are almost never used.
She stubbornly insisted that she would "never take any blood products" and that was that. She filled out her Advance Medical Directive (No Blood Card) accordingly. I said, "Fine, if you're in a medical situation that requires blood to save your life, you will die and the children and I will miss you. But if we are in such a situation we will accept whatever it takes to save our lives."
Returning to my initial point of this post, it would be great if somehow we could know just what would be the one issue that would get any particular JW to start questioning. (For me it was the UN/NGO scandal).
The problem is this: even when a JW is ready to begin questioning, they will rarely, if ever, voice any clues to another person due to the intense indoctrination which keeps so many captive.
And frankly, even if they did, those of us here are so far out we'd be the last to know it.
We do know, however, that many such "Ready To Awaken" JWs lurk here all of the time. So it's good that we discuss a number of different topics and issues. It's also important to keep in mind that, although the majority of our discussions are among those of use either well-out of the religion or at least receptive to entertaining dissenting thoughts--there are newbies lurking in the background.
If we keep these points in mind our posts can be thoughtful and powerful not just for those of us participating in any given discussion or debate, but also for those observing from the sidelines.
Oubliette
-
46
WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
.
basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
-
-
-
46
WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
.
basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
-
-
Oubliette
I'd be willing to bet that if you asked a random sampling of JWs if they believe in "The Rapture" the overwhelming majority would say that they do not. It might even be unanimous.
These articles prove conclusively that the WT teaches this doctrine, it just doesn't call it that. This is evidence that the average JW doesn't even know or understand what they supposedly "believe."
In truth, JWs "beliefs" are not their own; they "believe" whatever they are told to believe even if they can't keep up with what that exactly is at any given moment.
Let's review: It's a cult!
-
46
WT addresses the "rapture" teaching.
by wifibandit inlook at paragraph 15 of the 2015 july 15th study edition pg 18-19.. http://imgur.com/3wparys.
.
basically they admit to teaching the rapture (for the anointed remnant), just don't call it that!.
-
-
Oubliette
Interesting.
Check out this thread from two years ago, also from the July 15th issue of that year, 2013:
-
80
In a nutshell, what is the wackiest jw thing?
by stuckinarut2 inwhat is the wackiest...strangest....most unusual jw teaching or practice?
-
-
Oubliette
Faye: [The WT] use the word 'evidently' whenever there is absolutely NO evidence of what they are trying to prove, but it is based on pure speculation.
This is a very important point.
And yet the average JW will miss this, perhaps assuming that--because it is in the WT--there is some actual evidence, we just don't know what it is.
Most JWs trust the publishers of their literature and so they accept whatever it says uncritically.
I recently taught a unit on the subject of evidence in my high school science classes. We were discussing a broad range of scientific fields. It was very interesting to get feedback from my students on what they thought constituted acceptable evidence.
It was a great discussion. Although not drawing attention to it, I was mindful of the couple of JW students that are in my classes.
It was eye-opening to see how sharp some of these kids can be when they are actively encouraged to think and given the tools to do so.
-
556
The Watchtower are Right About Blood...
by cofty in... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.
it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.
they take pride in obedience.
-
-
Oubliette
Faye, if it works for you, then do it.
In my experience, which is supported by countless studies about human behavior and psychology, a person has a better chance of persuading someone else to change their mind about something which they strongly believe by starting with lower cost/less controversial subjects.
Oubliette
-
-
-
Oubliette
Eggs-actly!
-
556
The Watchtower are Right About Blood...
by cofty in... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.
it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.
they take pride in obedience.
-
-
Oubliette
cofty: If you are correct then websites like JWFacts are a complete waste of time and effort.
That doesn't follow and you know I don't believe JWFacts is a waste of time. There was nothing in my post that remotely implied such a thing.
Paul Grundy's site was very instrumental in my personal journey towards learning about the lies, hypocrisies and false doctrines of the WTBTS. I know many that have left the religion have felt the same way.
This forum serves a similar purpose.
But in all cases, it is only when a person is ready to confront their doubts and ask the hard questions.
In your OP you wrote:
I believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a JW about blood, this is the place we need to begin.
As I said previously, I think you raise some really good points. But this will only work if the particular JW we're trying to reach is ready to hear them.
Also, I think there are much easier subjects to broach the many problems with WT "theology" than this one. It is highly emotional for many people. Also, your arguments--although very strong--are (I believe) far too subtle for the average JW to contemplate.
All that being siad, I applaud your continued efforts to find ways to reason with JWs that are ready for the challenge of realizing their faith is a fraud.
Great thread!
-
5
I had every intention of going to the Memorial last night.......
by dubstepped ini wanted to go and to do it for jehovah and jesus and what they've done for me.
i wanted it to be a personal thing between them and i. i haven't been to a meeting in close to a year, not that anyone notices or cares.
this isn't my first stint away, and nobody would notice or care if i was found dead.
-
-
Oubliette
dubstepped, welcome to the rest of your life!
The clincher was when someone in the hall called to let us know that they were going into a similar business as us and that if we had some extra work we could give it to them.
That is so stupid!
Imagine this paraphrase: "I'm going into a similar business as you. If you have some extra MONEY, you could give it to me."
What rude, greedy, insensitive little twits.
Your right: "F-f-f-f fuck em all"!
Let's review: It's a cult!