Oubliette

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Posts by Oubliette

• 
  55

  "High" education

  by Esmeralda001 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  did any of you guys disregard the wt recommendations and pursue a career.

  if you answer "yes": was your journey easy?

  are you happy with the end result?

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  Oubliette

  Yes. No. Yes. Absolutely. Not in the least; I should have done this earlier! Never. A lot!

  Details to follow ...
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  23

  New Article on Reveal by Trey Bundy: JW's shield child sex abusers from police, report says

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  https://www.revealnews.org/blog/jehovahs-witnesses-shield-child-sexual-abusers-from-police-report-says/jehovahs witnesses shield child sex abusers from police, report says.

  by trey bundy / december 7, 2015 .

  jehovahs witnesses policies allow child sexual abusers to operate within their congregations without fear that they will be reported to police, according to a new report published by the australian government.

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  Oubliette

  Great article. I really like the way Trey Bundy writes on this and related subjects.

  Thanks for posting!
  
• 
  155

  Survey: How long were you in the cult vs what year you were baptized

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi people,.

  i want as much data as possible on the effect of the internet on the time captured by the cult.. please answer the three following questions about yourself or about someone you know (for example, if your parents or grandparents were jw's and left).

  1) were you raised as a jw, or did you convert?.

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  Oubliette

  incognito2014: I am really surprised that no one picked up on my earlier comments.

  I saw your comment on page 11 if that's the one you meant. You're not the only one that has made similar comments. See pages 9 - 11.
• 
  16

  It's OK to be an Apostate ... but only if you're on the Governing Body

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  look at the governing body.

  none of them believe now what the wts believed back when they were born and later baptized.. so why aren't they disfellowshipped for apostasy?.

  simple - because the true beliefs are always taken to mean whatever they currently consider them to be.. think about it - they can never be apostates because whatever they decide to believe becomes "the truth" and anyone not believing it is then guilty of apostasy, even if they believe things the wts has taught them all their lives.. if you do believe in the bible and jesus story, do you think this is what he intended?

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  Oubliette

  Every leader of this religion has apostatized from the previous version since Rutherford.

  Let's review: It's a cult!
• 
  16

  More than half of UK population is non-religious

  by bemused in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the british humanist association web-site has reported on the results of the british social attitudes survey, which is a major annual survey, the latest report covering the year 2013:.

  https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/the-british-social-attitudes-survey/.

  for the first time, those people saying they are not members of any religious group are in the majority in the uk, up by three percentage points from 47.7% to 50.6% in just one year.

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  Oubliette

  sbf: Imagine a world where no one was religious. Would we really want that?

  I would, absolutely yes.
  
• 
  55

  SHUNNING - Unchristian Psychological Torture

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some time ago, i wrote an extensive article on shunning and published it on my website.

  since that website had views on doctrinal matters that no longer reflect my current stand, i took the website down.

  however, my views on this matter are still current, and for the benefit of everyone here, i'm going to post the article here.

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  Oubliette

  Eden, I love the parts you've added. The whole section about the 1947 Awake! and the background history of the WTBTS/JWs change on this practice is very important for people to know.

  Great work!
• 
  2

  Judge for 4 days Rutherford

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

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  Oubliette

  Good to know.

  Note the use of the legal terms "Circuit" and "District" which are ubiquitous in JW-speak.

  Coincidence? No.

  This is when, where and how the legalistic approach to "worship" began in the religion which came to be known as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  The Pharisees would be so proud of little Joey.
  
• 
  155

  Survey: How long were you in the cult vs what year you were baptized

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi people,.

  i want as much data as possible on the effect of the internet on the time captured by the cult.. please answer the three following questions about yourself or about someone you know (for example, if your parents or grandparents were jw's and left).

  1) were you raised as a jw, or did you convert?.

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  Oubliette

  ILoveTTATT2: I am interested in doing this as best as possible.

  If you're really serious, then you need to reconsider your approach and your starting assumptions.
  

  Here's what's getting you off:
  

  ILoveTTATT2: I think this would be an interesting stat that has never been done before. I am certain that the results will be that the internet significantly reduces time in for everyone. A graph of "time in" vs year would be very insightful. I am sure that there will be more "lifers" in previous generations, and much less now.

  Instead of starting with a question (hypothesis), you began with an assumption stated in terms that show you've already reached your conclusion before you even began your research. As a result, you are only finding results that confirm what you already believe.

  This is not how science works.

  • "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
    

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  Try framing your hypothesis as a question. Maybe something like this:

  1. Does increased access to the internet significantly reduce the length of time it takes for a baptized JW to leave the religion?
  2. What kind of data would I need to collect to support this hypothesis or disprove it? (Note: In science, we can never prove anything with absolute certainty.)
  3. Where and how can I collect this? What amount will be sufficient?
     

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  As SailAway astutely observed: "Your survey doesn't question whether the Internet was a key factor in leaving the organization earlier or if it was a factor at all." If you really want to know if the internet was a factor, you should have asked that in your survey. But you'd also have to realize that the answers to this question would inherently be skewed because everyone answering it is on the internet responding to your survey!
  

  Ponder these questions and concerns and see if they help clarify and focus your research.

  Also, you should really wade through that old thread on this topic by Cedars which I referenced previously (see page 9 of this thread). You'll learn a lot by reading the back and forth between him, slimboyfat, Sir82 and 00DAD.

  Don't forget to read Paul Grundy's research also.
  

  Oubliette
  
• 
  31

  Disgusted By Today's WT Study 12/6/15

  by JW_Rogue in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no, not because of the message of deluding yourself into seeing the hand of god working in mundane wt activities.

  that is to be expected from this org.

  what really bothered me was the quote in paragraph one.

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  Oubliette

  Divergent: things that are credited to "God's hand" can simply be attributed to pure coincidence

  Yes. Here's an old thread posted by 00DAD: Jehovah is the God of Parking Lots:
  

  Have you ever noticed that JWs that have completely swallowed the kool-aid are really whacked in their thinking when it comes to interpreting life's events. No matter how things turn out, good or bad, they always--and I mean ALWAYS--spin it to confirm the belief that Jehovah is blessing THEM and not unbelievers.

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  Food for thought: There are no atheists in foxholes, or so we're told. But we'll never know if the soldiers blown to bits were praying to their God at the very moment their body exploded.

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  I knew a really annoying "Brother" that was always going on and on telling everyone how much God was blessing him in this or that. Now don't get me wrong, I think people should be appreciative, but he was always saying stupid stuff like, "Jehovah really blessed me today," but it was always about really trivial stuff and not ever about anything really important. Now mind you, this guy was an elder and regular pioneer, very respected in the circuit as well as in the congregation. He was a highly sought after speaker in congregations all over Southern California and frequently was featured on Circuit Assemblies and District Conventions. Nevertheless, he often fell victim to this fallacious way of thinking about God's alleged involvement in the mundane affairs of life that is sadly ubiquitous among JWs.

  For example, when he'd tell me about his latest "proof" of God's blessing I'd ask, "How so?"

  Brother Blessed (BB) might say something like, "Well when I went to the Post Office this morning, I got a parking space right away even though the lot was full!"

  Me, "So Jehovah is the God of Parking Lots?"

  BB, "Whaddya' mean? Are you making fun of me?"

  Me, "Well, it sounds like you're saying that the Creator of the Entire Universe thought it was important enough to drop everything else He was doing and just focus on making sure that YOU found a place to park so YOU could mail your mail."

  BB, "That's right."

  Me, "And all those other people that didn't find a parking place, God's NOT blessing them. Is that right?"

  BB, "Yes, that's right."

  Me, "And why is that?"

  BB, "Because I'm serving Jehovah and they're not."

  Me, "And you know this how?"

  BB, "Because I got the parking place and they didn't."

  Me, "That's your proof?"

  BB, "Yes."

  Me, "This mail, was it something 'theocratic' or just ordinary correspondence?"

  BB, "It was just me paying my bills is all."

  Me, "Then what makes you think Jehovah would bless that?"

  BB, "I know because he did. I got the parking spot and everyone else was just circling around with no where to park."

  Me, "I see ... I think. So WHY would Jehovah bless YOU and not the other people in the parking lot, especially considering the letters you had to mail were not of any spiritual importance?"

  BB, "Because I'm pioneering and needed to get out in service afterwards. Also, I have a Service Meeting part tonight I need to get home and prepare."

  Me, "Oh-kay ... So all that pioneering and meeting attendance is just so you can get good parking places?"

  BB, "No, them's just the perks."

  Me, "So God will 'bless' you when it comes to parking even though you can't speak English properly, but that's OK because you spend 90 hours a months walking up and down Ventura Boulevard in a suit being ignored by the few people that are, for-whatever-reason, also walking down the street, but going the opposite direction."

  BB, "Exactly! Now you're getting it."

  Me, "What about your wife leaving you? I mean that was really tragic for you wasn't it?"

  BB, "Yes it was. You know, she broke my heart! Why are you bringing that up? That really hurts!"

  Me, "I know it does and I'm sorry. But where was Jehovah's blessing there? Wouldn't you rather have a faithful wife than a good parking space at the post office?"

  BB, "Why are you saying this? You're making me mad. I don't like where this conversation is going ...."

  Me, "No, I'm sure you don't and come to think of it neither do I!"

  
  
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  21

  How do you overcome SHUNNING after leaving the organization and move on?

  by suavojr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it amazes me how many of you have left it all behind, including family, brothers and sisters, friends and a full network of people.

  i for one cannot find the courage to breakaway, and this causes me great anxiety and stress.

  it eats me alive to think that if i open my mouth everyone i know will simply turn their back on me.

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  Oubliette

  suavojr, I can't say that I've "overcome" being shunned, but I have learned to accept it and deal with it.

  I think it's also important to get some clarity on the situation. For one, I didn't leave my family and friends. I quit attending meetings at the KH and they subsequently left me.

  Although I don't like it and definitely wish they would be different, it makes a difference to place the blame for the relationships ending where it belongs, on them.

  A few years ago I supposedly had 8 million friends "closer than a brother." Now I know that was never really true. My circle of friends is significantly smaller and two of my own children won't talk to me simply because I don't follow seven small-minded, delusional fools in Brooklyn.

  But I know this: the people that are my family and friends now love me for WHO I am, and not WHAT I (pretend to) believe.

  Counseling helps. Try it.