Posts by cookiemaster

13

Thoughts from the International Summer Convention in Romania

by cookiemaster in

we just had a huge international convention here in romania.

at least huge by local standards.

22,000 in attendance in one location and around 44,000 throughout the country.

cookiemaster

Thanks everyone for your interesting replies. Yes, they still do the gift exchanges and the native costumes thing. The brothers and sisters here waited everyone at the airport dressed on full on native costumes. It was pretty cringy, especially as the clothing is traditionally quite thick and there was a heat wave going on.

The whole job thing is insane. They just demonize having a career and make it seem like any well paying job will demand of you to be there 100% of the time, not even being able to take a few hours off for a meeting, which is just false in most cases. The videos they present have such unrealistic scenarios, it's almost laughable. Even if some scenarios are realistic, it's often worth the effort to work more. Especially for people who have old or sick family members or other issues to deal with, and want to have physical and financial security.

They show these movies with JWs that live prosperous middle class lives while doing almost no real work and spending their time pioneering. That's not how the real world works in my experience.

13

Thoughts from the International Summer Convention in Romania

by cookiemaster in

we just had a huge international convention here in romania.

at least huge by local standards.

22,000 in attendance in one location and around 44,000 throughout the country.

cookiemaster

Steve2 - About 22,000 people attended the convention I was at and around 280 got baptized.

13

Thoughts from the International Summer Convention in Romania

by cookiemaster in

we just had a huge international convention here in romania.

at least huge by local standards.

22,000 in attendance in one location and around 44,000 throughout the country.

cookiemaster

We just had a huge international convention here in Romania. At least huge by local standards. 22,000 in attendance in one location and around 44,000 throughout the country. I went two days to make my parents happy and because they had no ride and it was far away. For some reason, you can only stay at borg approved hotels. The brother in charge of the accommodations in our congo said that it should be clear to everyone that the hotels on his list were approved by Jehovah himself and the rest were absolutely not, which I just found preposterous.

Then it was the convention itself. Almost every talk and video seemed to be about giving up your job. They've vilified having a career to ridiculous extents which I honestly don't understand. It's almost an obsession at this point. I know they want people dedicating their lives to the cult but who's going to donate when they're all going to be poor? Such great advice. My parents both followed it and now after a thankless life of pioneering they're in their 60s and depend on me financially.

Although, to be fair, almost everyone else seems to be ignoring this. One of the brothers that gave one of the talks against putting career first drives a 100 grand brand new BMW X5M. Living such a simple, bare necessities life. The cognitive dissonance must be strong in that one and in a bunch of the brothers and sisters that seemed super rich and yet very approving of this teaching.

I guess the Gibberish Buddies love them either way. The rich for their donations and the poor for their life of servitude. Another interesting thing was a talk about watching out for pedos. Basically, it was all about watching your children closely because there are many potential pedos. Nothing specific about pedos in the congregation, about ACR or how they refuse to report pedophiles to authorities. Interesting.

The new songs are ridiculous. One of them almost felt like something you'd hear at the end of a Disney movie and people almost started dancing to it. My life-long brainwashed JW mother was like "WTF is this song!". She couldn't believe they would make such a pop sounding song official.

The good part was that everyone has electronic devices now, so you don't stand out if you spend all the convention time on one. I played games all day, fell asleep in my chair a few times and almost finished reading a novel. Another highlight was the young, beautiful women at the convention. Too bad they're going to waste their youth and beauty slaving away for a cult.

Overall, the convention and the teachings seem to become more and more absurd. A brother was talking about how we need to follow anything the borg says, even if it sounds irrational and demands our death. It was very much a "WTF!" moment. It's absurdity, piled on more absurdity, in a "religion" almost unrecognizable from what it was even just a few decades ago.

Anthony Morris gave a couple of talks. They were pretty idiotic and he looked like he was about to have a heart attack. One was about a new indoctrination book for children, of course only available as a pdf because they don't bother publishing stuff anymore (first summer convention I attended in which no new physically published materials were offered) and another tried to convince that the end is here but was quite self-contradicting and irrational. Anyway, that was my weekend. How was yours? What do you think? Is this religion getting more absurd or what?

39

Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult just as evil and dangerous as Islam?

by cookiemaster in

i know you might think i'm exaggerating but if you really think about it, maybe i'm not.

these two religions originate with the same ancient belief system.

islam is a dangerous middle eastern cult that seeks to control every aspect of its members' lives.

cookiemaster

Also, concerning Simon's point about being able to criticize today's Christianity without fear of violence, I would like to remind him that this was not always the case. Christianity was just as barbaric as ISIS in the past and the only reason why we can criticize it today is because people have fought for centuries for reformation and most importantly secularism. We live in secular societies, not Christian societies. It's only this wonderful invention of secularism that allows us to do that, because without doubt, a theocratic Christian society would be a nightmare. That was perhaps also my main point about JWs, so I would like to rephrase. Would JWs be better than Islam is they had their own theocratic society to run, with absolute legal and governmental power?

Also, you might try the counter argument that Islamists are dangerous to those that criticize them even in Western secular societies, but you have to consider that these people came from theocratic Middle Eastern societies by the millions and were never made to assimilate with the local culture, so they uphold the same behaviors as they had in their previous societies, or create entire secluded communities where they enforce their theocratic rule, like in Britain's Luton.

39

Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult just as evil and dangerous as Islam?

by cookiemaster in

i know you might think i'm exaggerating but if you really think about it, maybe i'm not.

these two religions originate with the same ancient belief system.

islam is a dangerous middle eastern cult that seeks to control every aspect of its members' lives.

cookiemaster

Interesting replies. I think Simon misunderstood the most what I was trying to say but some of the others have as well. English is my second language so perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I was also referring to JWs potential for danger. They currently pose no danger but to themselves and the people they trick into believing their delusions. However, this is only because they've been founded in the secular West and have never had the opportunity to grow beyond the numbers of a small sect.

My point was to try to imagine if JWs had grown so much that they'd become the dominant religious group in a country and they'd assume theocratic rule over that country. Would you tolerate life in a society in which the congregation elders have life and death authority over you? A country in which the governing body would be the ultimate governmental and legislative institution? I think any society run by JWs would be just as bad as the Saudi Arabia of today. Of course they aren't as bad now because they're not legally allowed to, by virtue of being a minority group in a secular society, but their destructive potential is much higher.

As for Simon. Your notion that all Muslims are waging Jihad is ridiculous. Most of the world's Muslims are not waging any Jihad. It's not their Jihad that is the worst aspect of their religion but its total control over the life of its subjects and its ideological aspects that inevitably lead to the formation of theocratic societies instead of secular ones. For the rest that said I shouldn't call Islam a cult, I don't agree.

Most of the world's Muslims live in theocratic societies and in the few lucky Muslim countries where secularism was installed, there are countless pockets of fundamentalists, especially in rural areas, eager to punish those that aren't "real Muslims". There are entire Muslim communities in secular countries, even in the West, where barbaric practices are upheld. The example of Indonesia was given. Here's an interesting article on Indonesia and Muslims: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/rita-panahi/rita-panahi-cut-indonesia-aid-until-sharia-law-barbarism-ends/news-story/5c9d670a653b11cb370e8bfd24590d16

I don't think Islam is anything but a cult, in any country. If JWs qualify as a cult, Islam certainly does, in all it's forms. You may choose to leave Islam in the U.K. and still have to fear for your life. Anyway, I see that people think that the thousands of deaths of children and young adults because their parents chose to refuse life saving medical treatment for them is not as bad as terrorism, even though in the West it results in even more tragic deaths that any terrorist attack. Regardless of that, what about the danger potential of JWs. Muslims teach that the penalty for apostasy is death. What would the penalty for apostasy be in a country run entirely by JWs?

39

Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult just as evil and dangerous as Islam?

by cookiemaster in

i know you might think i'm exaggerating but if you really think about it, maybe i'm not.

these two religions originate with the same ancient belief system.

islam is a dangerous middle eastern cult that seeks to control every aspect of its members' lives.

cookiemaster

Cofty - It is possible but you have to admit the similarities are striking. JWs simply don't have the power to enforce their religion on society like Muslims do.

DoctorWho - Okay but isn't brainwashing and pressuring thousands of people into committing suicide by refusing life-saving medical treatment just as bad? Granted, it's not as spectacular as crashing a plane into a building but JWs have definitely killed more Americans in the meantime with their blood policy than the Islamic terrorists have since 9/11.

39

Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult just as evil and dangerous as Islam?

by cookiemaster in

i know you might think i'm exaggerating but if you really think about it, maybe i'm not.

these two religions originate with the same ancient belief system.

islam is a dangerous middle eastern cult that seeks to control every aspect of its members' lives.

cookiemaster

I know you might think I'm exaggerating but if you really think about it, maybe I'm not. These two religions originate with the same ancient belief system. Islam is a dangerous Middle Eastern cult that seeks to control every aspect of its members' lives. It has created theocratic totalitarian societies where religious leaders have a grotesque level of control over the lives of people, in some cases even that of issuing death sentences for religious crimes. Islam teaches the penalty for apostasy is death. The doctrines of modern Islamic leaders about the right to kill Muslims that are not "real Muslims" (they don't take their religious seriously enough/want to live a secular lifestyle) as well as infidels has created conflicts and hundreds of thousands of deaths due to terrorism. So, how could JWs compare to this?

I think JWs are very similar. They also seek to control every aspect of their members' lives. They also exercise totalitarian control in the "JW society" they have created. While they do not act violently toward anyone right now, they do hate a lot of people. JWs teach the penalty for apostasy is death by Jehovah. The only reason why JWs can't create a Saudi Arabia of their own, is because there's not enough of them. Imagine a country where only JWs exist and the government is a theocratic JW government. Apostates, fornicators, gays and others would be killed just like they are today in extreme Muslims societies. If JWs had one billion adherents and shaped society, they'd have the power to do some horrific shit.

Plus, they do some horrific shit today. There were actually almost a dozen cases (that I know of) of JWs dying because of refusing a blood transfusion just in the past couple of years in my country (we also have about 40,000 JWs). An 18 year old girl died after getting into a traffic accident because her parents refused to allow the doctors to give her a blood transfusion.There are what, 8 million JWs worldwide? That means thousands (maybe more) of deaths every single year because of refusing blood transfusions. If you think about it, JWs kill more people than terrorists. Only nobody cares in mainstream society. How many people have died in the past 50 years due to their policies or vaccines, organ transplants and blood transfusions?

37

The day after Armageddon

by Pronger1 in

jws are scattered across the globe.

a few million people left, pretty isolated from each other.. telephone lines and power goes down since the people who supported the infrastructure are dead.

communication across town, state, country, etc is cut off.

cookiemaster

LOL, you guys are such softies. Most JWs here in Eastern Europe would be fine. About 50% of our population lives in the rural environment. We grow most of our food. We have pigs, goats, chicken, crops in the fields, etc. Most people have their own plumbing system. Food and water would be no problem.

Heating and cooking is done with wood burning stoves because wood is practically a free and endless resource here. There would be plenty of cars and gas around, so that would be no problem. Even without those, there are bicycles and horse carts that people can use, like in the olden days.

One of the local JWs is an electrician. So there are some with some limited technical skills. Communications would be a problem. The local JW community would be isolated from the rest of the world. A lot of different JWs sects would form pretty quickly in my opinion. Being isolated from the GB, the local elders would act as religious and community leaders. By leaders I mean tyrants.

I wouldn't exclude violence against those that don't agree with elders. Disfellowshipping would be carried out by execution. No modern medicine around would mean a lot of deaths, especially among the sick and elderly. The biggest problem here would be an extremely low population density. There are a little over 20 JWs in the local congo, and most are old people. I think there might be only 4-5 individuals under the age of 40. Expect lots and lots of inbreeding.

Also, in a world run by JWs expect total patriarchy. Women would probably have as few rights as they do today in Arab countries. Little more than property. Marriages would be arranged by the male heads of families.

Practically, it would be like living in Saudi Arabia but without modern technology. Women are just a type of domestic animal you breed with. You fornicate, you're dead. You're gay, you're dead. You're an atheist, you're dead. You don't agree with some doctrines, you're dead. Your threaten the position of power of the local elders, you're dead. Conventions would be like tribal meetings. A very weird, bronze age world.

21

Attending a same-sex wedding

by Samantharockeby33 in

my cousin, whom is not jw, but we have grown up together our whole lives has just gotten engaged to her same sex partner, i am very conflicted on wether i can/should attend the wedding or not.

i am very close with my cousin and her partner and they are very understanding to our beliefs and differences as she grew up with our whole family being jw.

some family members have already said they will definitely be attending and some definitely not attending so i just want some extra advice and guidance!

cookiemaster

Hi Sam,
My name is also Sam in the real world. I'm 23 and in a similar position to yours, being theoretically still in and having JW parents but not having attended in a long time. I was recently interrogated by two elders for having attended a worldly public event that was about harmless fun. I have to admit it made me kinda angry and I didn't talk very nicely with them. Anyway, the point is that I don't regret it. It was fun and I can't afford to live my life in fear of breaking some stupid rules.

Some advice that I can give you is that you don't to live by their rules. You can keep a low profile if you do attend, just to avoid any trouble. But if the elders do start the interrogations, you can make up whatever bullshit you think will get you off easier, even saying something you don't really mean. Not getting the family that won't attend mad at you is the hardest thing. You can say that you love your cousin so much that you don't want to break her heart by not attending.

47

CO visit... Circuit is not growing at all, he said during midweek meeting

by StarTrekAngel in

so that was a "shocker".

i was not able to attend the meeting.

i had a more important one with my other apostate friends in the area.

cookiemaster

This might not be the most relevant piece of information but in my congregation here in Romania there used to be 60+ people regularly attending when I was a child, and now two decades later they barely get 20 people, sometimes not even that. This is with pioneers from other congregations being sent here, who will most likely leave in a few years at most.

Nobody got baptized in forever (probably a decade). There are only two local elders, one of which is 70+ and other in his 50s. Only two JW males under 40 in the entire congregation, one of which being me (inactive-rumored apostate) and the other guy isn't even an MS. It's pretty much the same everywhere in the country and most countries in Europe.

This is definitely a larger downward trend for JWs that is taking place on a global scale. In this growingly less religious/traditional world, JWs with all their stupid rules are completely unattractive.