Posts by zound

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

zound

So jesus clarified that scripture for you. Even though the context is clearly as braincleaned said. Why then did he not get it written correctly the first time.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

Short story

by zound in

short story i started writing - opinions / critique / interesting enough to pursue further?.

here are the facts (now pay attention):.

the earth is an exceptionally large place.

zound

Short story I started writing - opinions / critique / interesting enough to pursue further?

...

Here are the facts (now pay attention):

The earth is an exceptionally large place. Vast and majestic, harrowing and dangerous, it stretches out as far as the distant horizon, and even (quite possibly) beyond that. The small lights in the night sky are distant campfires, around which, long dead ancestors huddle in the darker hours. And most importantly, this large rock I sit atop - perched cross-legged and precarious - is the most holy and sacred place in the entire universe.

These are the facts. Learn them well. Meditate on them. And be silent, for now I must chant.

Om…

What’s that? You wish to know more? I told you so much already, what more could you possibly want?

How do I know the lights in the sky are distant campfires? Well, I will point out the obvious, after which you will no doubt feel foolish for asking such an ignorant question.

When the sky begins to darken, and the air begins to chill, all men with bracken, flint and know-how, light up a flame to keep the dark, cold and hungry at bay. From up here on my rock, I see the fires spark up in the dusk hours. Over there, in that distant village, small circles of light nightly burst into existence, flickering gently through the long evening.

It only takes a modest leap of logic to conclude that the lights in the sky are also distant fires, lit by the ancestors as the sky darkens - burning through the night very very very far away.

Feeling foolish now pilgrim?

How do I know it is the ancestors that light the fires each night, you say?

Pilgrim, I know you have endured a long and arduous journey to visit the wisest man on earth, but I have a long day of chanting ahead of me, and really must continue before I get too far behind.

You can join me in chanting if you wish. Perhaps it may quell that inquisitive mind of yours. Take a cross-legged seat on that rock over there – the second most holy and sacred place in the entire universe. Just be sure not to get too comfortable.

Let’s begin:

Om…

You know, you remind me of someone - a small boy, who spent some time squirming on that rock just as you are. He, like you, could never sufficiently sit still in the meditative pose, and could never hold an ‘om’ for any decent length of time. I’m sure there’s a warning to the inquisitive and the curious in the story of that boy – he came to quite a sticky end (of this I’m sure).

What’s that? I’ve ruined the ending of the tale? Not knowing is half the fun?

Ah, pilgrim, how much you have to learn - yet curiosity will never lead you there. Not knowing is indeed fun, but knowing is so much better.

The small boy who once sat where you do, with the same curious expression on his face, and the same question mark on the tail end of every sentence – his demise (of which I can estimate) was extremely gruesome and painful. He was altogether ignorant and yet ignored the wisdom that was staring him right in the face.

His name was Basho.

I’ll do you a favor pilgrim, and spin you his story. I’ve spoiled the ending, as you already complained, so no harm done in also revealing the moral of the story in advance. It’s simple really:

‘Curiosity killed Basho.’

And it could kill you too, so listen closely.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

zound

nm

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

zound

Again a generalisation.

I tried to have a personal relationship with god years after the JW's.

By the way, I was a born in, so I didn't choose to join the JW's.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

zound

Dishonesty comes in when someone fails to answer my questions also, I would think.

Is there a question I didn't answer?

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

zound

Tec — do you KNOW what crimes were and are commited in the name of Christ? Do you know how little respect he has for family values ( Matthew 10:37 AND context) ?? Faith in Christ has been the cancer of our evolution for over 2,000 years — is that not enough?

None of them were following christ properly braincleaned - they thought they were. They were just following men.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

zound

you argue against generalizations and what you THINK faith is based on what you were taught when you were a believer, even though your faith was in MEN. Something that I argue against as well.

You just made a generalisation there yourself tec. My faith wasn't in men - I genuinely believed I had / could have a personal relationship with god when I was a beleiver.

141

Knowledge by Proxy

by braincleaned in

whatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.

we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.

but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.

zound

The doctrine of faith is WHAT Is dangerous, and it's common to ALL of Christianity, as a cornerstone of Jesus' message. Faith is the 'engine' that drives Christianity, and it is fundamentally-flawed, since it leads to abuse and control, and has NO VALUE aside from teaching individuals to blindly follow orders without thinking about their actions.

Totally agree.

To me, Tec has crossed the line into willful ignorance. Many people have pointed out her flawed thinking, tried reasoning with her, tried very succinctly and kindly to help her see that faith can potentially be dangerous - but she is sending but not recieving.

Of course her emotions and desires are what keep her blinded, but there must be at some point some concious intellectual dishonesty that keeps her in her deluded and brick-wall like state. (in fact this dishonesty is easy to see in her posts)

I'm sure she's a nice person but I have zero respect for her beliefs.

157

Atheists know more about the bible!

by Comatose in

a newly minted atheist, she uses her youversion bible app to try to persuade people away from the christianity she grew up in.. .

i know of a lot of atheists who have come to their nonbelief by actually reading the bible rather than just the fluffy stories they choose to tell you about in church, she said.

reading the full story with all its contradictions and violence and sexism, it should make you think, is this really what i believe in?

zound

I'm assuming this is the answer you refer to:

I think you may have answerd your own question as to why my answer is no. How are you going to know by the result of that experiment... if it come from Christ... or some other spirit? I do test the inspired expressions... that others share... that I hear if I am in doubt as to recognizing my Lord... but it is the content of what is being shared that is tested.

To which I changed the experiment to identify a supernatural source or not - as opposed to identifying if it is from christ or not.

But I get it. You're off the hook. I'm done with engaging with you, you are disengenous and intellectually dishonest.