Posts by zound

26

if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either

by biometrics in

for even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.

(2 thess.

how many witlesses actually take this scripture to heart and apply it in their lives.

zound

Yeh, I'm Australian - whilst it probably happens, the dole is generally frowned upon by JW's.

They expect pioneers to put in 90 hours a month as well as clean toilets or wash windows to support themselves.

203

goodbye AAWA--good luck

by bigmac in

i'm out.

.

seems they didnt like me posting this.

zound

I was initially interested in some kind of global JW recovery support, but I couldn't sign up because I didn't support their charter - which they very explicitly say you must support.

I don't think trying to discuss with the Watchtower how they can change their policies is in the least bit realistic. Which makes me think either the organisers are completely deluded, or they are trying to make the point - "Look, Look! See! The watchtower are not co-operating with us! We're offering a hand of friendship and only have good intentions but they refuse to talk to us! (could be something to do with... oh I don't know... encouraging everyone to give the finger to kingdom halls maybe?) We're victims! We're victims!"

The watchtower don't negotiate with apostates - end of story. Having that in your charter just makes you look stupid.

My suggestion for AAWA? All the organisors and volunteers disband and start up support groups in their local cities for recovering JW's. This will have a knock on effect that the people helped will in turn want to help people themselves. Should it be organised and formalised? No. Should experiences and techniques be shared worldwide? Sure. Just don't start calling people publishers and expect them to hand in time cards each month with the amount of hours they put in. And don't ask for donations (especially on the first day of launch!)

Thankfully AAWA are making such ridiculous rookie errors that most smart people will smell the stench from a mile away and keep clear. That leaves the inexperienced or vunerable people, or the type of people that think taking photos of themselves giving the bird to Kingdom halls is helpful. Throw in a few people that have an unchecked hate for the Watchtower and violent tendencies and it's just another Bulgaria situation waiting to happen.

That's why I have no problem with denouncing the AAWA. I think it's potentially dangerous to perhaps a small amount of people, but to people nevertheless.

People who really want to be helpful to ex JW's and JW's? Don't put all your hopes in AAWA because its the only thing out there - it sucks, it will hurt more people than help. Make it your mission to help personally just one single JW or exJW you know and you're doing okay.

203

goodbye AAWA--good luck

by bigmac in

i'm out.

.

seems they didnt like me posting this.

zound

Jesus! I must say, I am definately against AAWA now and think it's a bad and potentially dangerous idea if it's run by these people that don't seem to understand what professionalism is - and for whatever reason can't see that stuff like this is a no brainer - DON'T ***ING DO IT!

I think of the violent attacks of the witnesses in Bulgaria. Watch the news video of it, it's quite horrible. You know how that started? It was a bunch of ex-jehovahs witness activists that were peacefully protesting against the JW's, then some drunken locals got involved and things turned violent.

Ex-JW's are helping JW's all over the world - it doesn't need to be organised!

If you MUST have an organisation - do it purely 100% to help and support ex-JW's that come out of the organisation. Build up statistics and case studies of the damage that is being done to people then with a few years of exeriences go to the authoritys with a buttload of data and voices proving Watchtower is a destructive organisation, then let them take legal action.

As soon as you start attacking Watchtower you discredit yourself and make yourself hypocrites.

Though people suffered from the facebook thing - promoting hate against the watchtower is eventually going to lead to violence! I know these are real people that run this thing, and I'm not having a go personally - if you put yourselves in positions of power you have to expect criticism.

"It is the firm belief of AAWA that Watchtower will continue to suffer adverse publicity and further stagnation in member growth unless it is prepared to accept its urgent duty to reform elements of its teachings and practices that are both unmerciful and potentially destructive both to its members and former members."

Let me just re-arrange this:

"It is my belief that AAWA will continue to suffer adverse publicity and further stagnation in member growth unless it is prepared to accept its urgent duty to reform elements of its teachings and practices that are both unmerciful and potentially destructive both to its members and former members."

Activism - you're doing it wrong.

20

MUST READ: Books for Young JWs - a Required Reading List

by Oubliette in

i've been contemplating a list of works of fiction that should be read by every young jehovah's witness, (12 - 18 years old).

the goal is to plant seeds of truth and critical thinking skills which could ultimately invoking cognitive dissonance and help them wake up to the truth about "the truth" (ttatt).

my idea is an adaptation of steven hassan's approach of not attacking a cult members beliefs directly, but rather indirectly by getting them to look at other similar belief systems and social structures, in this case fictional ones that mirror many of the destructive, oppressive features of jehovah's witnesses.

zound

I read Farenhete 451 when I was a teenage JW. Didn't see any connections at all.

I'm not sure if JW's would notice any connections with any of these - too deep in the machine.

26

How Many Parts of the Circle of Life Does Paradise Break?

by Comatose in

in another thread on crazy things people think will happen in paradise i was thinking about this.

so lets post them here as you can think of them.

what is broken or dies or unexplainable in a paradise where all creation gets along.. .

zound

Could someone clarify the current teachings of the animals in the New System. Animals will still die won't they? But of natural causes.

Is the whole animals not killing each other based purely on "lion will lie down with the lamb" and "child will play at the hole of a rattlesnake"?

I mean all the tracts and magazines of Pandabear world feature ravenous animals playing peacefully with each other. Is this taught in actual writing (especially more recently) or is it all pictures, inference, and the occasional nutjob circuit overseer expounding on things in public talks?

23

'The Matrix' and 'The Village'

by JWB in

'the matrix' and 'the village'.

elsewhere someone created a thread concerning the novels '1984' and 'animal farm' as being relevant to the wts.

i would also like to add a thread to draw suggestions for movies.. .

zound

"Guyana Tragedy - The Story of Jim Jones"

Watched it recently, scary how some scenes are so reminiscent of things you hear as a JW.

15

DC invite

by turtleturtle in

has anyone seen the district convention invitation.

guess who's on the front page?

yep, a gb member.

zound

Guy Pierce on the back cover. Yay!

"Truth, where can you find it?" Not there friends.

12

"The Truth Changes" with the text from the "Simplified" Edition WT

by Doug Mason in

the text i used in my analysis, "the truth changes: watchtower july 15, 2013" comes from the "study" edition of that magazine.. it is still available at: http://www.jwstudies.com/the_truth_changes.pdf.

i have now used the text from the "simplified" edition, and it is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_truth_changes_in_the_simplified_watchtower.pdf.

zound

The whole analogy of the faithful and discrete slave is that Christ returns and decides from the actions of the slaves who is the discreet one and who is lazy one or whatever. The idea isn't that one of the slave declares himself discreet and faithful in advance - then when Jesus returns he says - "Hi Jesus, I'm the discrete one - just so you know. He's the haughty one, I'm the discreet one - so i'll have my reward now thanks."

Jesus decides. The slaves aren't even aware of any future reward. (that's if you take the parable for a parallel with our times - which is a ****ing stretch to begin with.)

By saying that they haven't been rewarded with all the belongings yet but once Jesus returns, is I think from their prospective supposedly 'humble' (which shows how out of touch they are). In reality they are outlining the terms and conditions to Jesus, saying "Sooooo... When you're back and find that we are the discreet slave (because we declared ourselves such) we'll be happy with dominion over the earth and heaven... I think that should be sufficient reward - cheers."

I think it was a talk by Stephen Lett (pre new light) who said something along the lines of angels in heaven not getting peeved off when the newly appointed annointed kings take on a higher position than the angels - the angels will show a humble attitude to their new masters (I'll try to hunt down the exact reference)

The generation thing is obviously to buy more time.

I would hazard a guess to the Faithful Slave thing to being to get the R&F to disregard anything that the annointed say to them. For example, we had an annointed brother in our congregation and the bro's and sis's viewed him as having some special insight on things unwritten. He never said anything out of line that I can remember but I can imagine annointed bro's saying things and the R&F taking it as if it were coming from Jehovah.

144,000 are no longer the faithful and discreet slave? Strips them further of the little power they had in the congregations (rememeber mentally imbalanced anyone?). Who knows, they may do away with 144,000 altogether in future - and 'discover' that 144,000 was symbolic for 8.

15

Ray Franz repeat?

by zound in

if one of the current governing body members pulled a ray franz and stepped down/got disfellowshipped then either wrote an expose or something else to go against the watchtower society - would they be forgiven and accepted by the ex-jw community?.

considering they have ray's example behind them i find it more deplorable that they continue in their paths, and personally would find it hard, though not impossible to forgive them - but am interested in everyones opinion....

zound

Back in Ray's day there was what 16? members. Now there's only eight - who have declared themselves the Faithful and discreet slave. And they full well know of Ray's tale of redemption and even have all the info at their fingertips.

Are they captives of a concept? Yeh probably. So if they did turn around they should be forgiven.

I can't see any of the hardliners turning around - Gerret Losch or Anthony Morris (the third).

Perhaps the newbie might have a change of heart - I forget his name now.

15

Ray Franz repeat?

by zound in

if one of the current governing body members pulled a ray franz and stepped down/got disfellowshipped then either wrote an expose or something else to go against the watchtower society - would they be forgiven and accepted by the ex-jw community?.

considering they have ray's example behind them i find it more deplorable that they continue in their paths, and personally would find it hard, though not impossible to forgive them - but am interested in everyones opinion....

zound

If one of the current governing body members pulled a Ray Franz and stepped down/got disfellowshipped then either wrote an expose or something else to go against the Watchtower society - would they be forgiven and accepted by the ex-JW community?

Considering they have Ray's example behind them I find it more deplorable that they continue in their paths, and personally would find it hard, though not impossible to forgive them - but am interested in everyones opinion...