Seraphim23

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Posts by Seraphim23

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  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  So do you if you want to explain consciousness cofty.
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  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  Not at all cofty! The belief in Jesus cannot be reached by a discussion of this scope, or subject matter! Also my position would be more along the lines of, you shouldn’t even believe in consciousness!
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  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  It seems we have similar views Apognophos, with the exception that I think magic exist for the soul/consciousness and you do not. I must say that you seem more consistent, logical and intelligent in your materialist, and if you don’t mind me saying so `atheist` views than most atheists in this thread.
• 
  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  Viviane, people define words not dictionaries. Dictionaries simply list the definitions in common use which changes over time in many cases. Hence scientific dictionaries define many terms differently. Due to the fact that there is no scientific consensus on what creates consciousness as yet, caution must be applied in setting up its scientific definition. There is still debate on what gravity is in terms of whether it is a force or an affect! Thus more than one definition is often used, but both cannot be correct, hence more debate, science, discussion ect is often if not always needed. Comprehension is better than being hamstrung by definitions if science and understanding is to move forward.

  Apognophos just for the record, you seemed to have summarised many of my points accurately and adroitly. Thank you for that!
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  51

  Why do Christian nations think they can assimilate Muslims into their communities , does Islam attempt to assimilate Christians in their communities ?

  by smiddy in

  1. social
  2. current

  islam /muslims today are what christianity was centuries ago , the two beleif systems are like oil and water , not to be mixed .

  christians are not tolerated spreading their infectious disease amongst muslims, in islamic countrys , and harsh penalties apply for them doing so in muslim countries , including the death penalty.

  stonings , whippings etc.. on the other hand christian nations are very tolerant of muslim extremists who incite hatred and violence on their own territory , and they get a slap on the wrist and say dont do it again .

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  Seraphim23

  Back in Christ’s time the Jews had neighbours who had a similar faith to theirs and both groups had problems with each other, including murders and so forth. However Jesus seemed to cast Samarians as the hero in one of his powerful moral parables when speaking to the Jews. I think there are lessons there. I live with many Muslims where I live and most are nice decent people. Even if some are enemies, we all know the best way to deal with enemies and that is to make them friends. Dare I even say love ones enemies?
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  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  Some animals in nature breathe through the skin! Anyhow I didn’t ignore inconvenient facts because I acknowledged in an earlier post that what happens to the brain has an effect on what the person whose brain it is experiences. It doesn’t prove however that whatever it is that experiences such things is in the brain itself. It seems however that you are ignoring my points.
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  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  I kind of addressed this line of reasoning in an earlier post. Suffice it to say, correlation does not equal causation, just as breathing doesn’t always need lungs in nature. We also breath through the skin.

  So the case is not proven that the brain creates consciousness!

  PS you spelled my name wrong. HOW DARE YOU!
• 
  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  The onus is also on you to show how the brain creates consciousness or even how in theory it could! Stating that brains create consciousness also doesn’t make it so.
• 
  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  Actually the quote you have of mine there cofty was an example of carrying on a thread of logic to its end point, in order to make the point I actually wanted to make which was not that rocks are conscious but that no physical object can exhibit consciousness on its own or due to that objects complexity. It’s like playing devils advocate in the literary sense in order to try and make an opposite point.

  There are three main positions here, with one being that certain properties possessed of all objects makes them all conscious. The second being the amount of that property that is possessed of all objects that makes some objects conscious. The third is that no property of any object makes it conscious, which is my position. The property is question is order, which I don’t think can create consciousness on its own.
• 
  149

  If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

  the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

  some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

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  Seraphim23

  It doesn’t really matter for the purposes of my argument Apognophos because nothing can ever be proved to be infinite, particularly physical things that exist, just as mathematics cannot be proved to be the physical universe.