I agree to a certain extent with what you say Satanus. I certainly can go as far as seeing some merit to the idea that Jesus being God and man applies also to us and well as a case for a collective unconscious. However I also see a case that consciousness cannot be divided. Even a fake reality needs a real projector and screen of sorts and the screen is our own individuality to my mind. I think we are dealing with questions that cannot be understood without generating logical contradictions. We see this with quantum mechanics as well with waves and particle contradictions. The problem is both are true even though it goes against a nice consistent way of understanding. Thus I think you are only correct with half the equation, or half correct. There is also the truth of the other side.
Seraphim23
JoinedPosts by Seraphim23
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70
The Small Quiet Voice
by Satanus indo you hear it?
not talking about voices.
i'm talking about that little niggling thing, on the side.
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70
The Small Quiet Voice
by Satanus indo you hear it?
not talking about voices.
i'm talking about that little niggling thing, on the side.
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Seraphim23
I left the WT at 19 due to being gay, but even before that there were little intellectual niggles in my mind with things that didn’t seem to fit as neatly as I thought they should into the WTs world view. Funny enough one of those was my own personal predilection for dreams that foretell future events, ranging from disasters in the news to local cats going missing and what happened to them. I know this might sound strange to some but it’s normal for me. However due to the WTs world view that I had, I thought these were from the devil. So I used to pray that they stop but this didn’t stop the dreams. So intellectually I had two choices of how to interpret this. One was to consider that what the WT said was in error, or that I was so disapproved of by God that he wouldn’t even stoop to helping me being affected by the devil.
In the end of course I realised the WTs view was the wrong one. Of course this doesn’t mean that these dreams are from God. There are many interesting theories as where this comes from. Remote viewing for instance works for almost everyone who tries it, to varying degrees, but it is not easy to think God would provide such information for military purposes.
I personally think it is too easy to say God sends this information although I do believe in God. Everything may well be from God ultimately but not everything is directly and I think this phenomena is one example in some cases. There is another possible view of course and that is the idea that God is in us and we are in him in a kind expanded trinity idea. It would be a bit like saying the collective unconscious is God. I think this idea has merit although the individual nature of personal consciousness which is seemingly indivisible is a problem. To be blunt, If I am not me but several, I never was me. It is a bit like the problem of numbers in that infinity is made up of infinite numbers, so what is number 1 then? Infinity and finite things are intellectually exclusive concepts and the two cannot be made to fit together in any model of understanding, even though the two are obviously connected. I guess beyond this line of the mind all bets are off.
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Conspiracy theories and the fear roller coaster, or reassurance ride?
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Seraphim23
This thread didnt get many comments.
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I am gay and Jehovah Witness
by yosisoy inhello, i am jehovah witness and gay.
i am from puerto rico.
i would like to know how hard is to leave the organization.
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Seraphim23
Hi andys I am a gay ex JW which I know is not exactly the same thing that you are talking about, but I wanted you to know your not on you own. We are here for you.
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Hello
by Seraphim23 innot sure if this is the place to say hello and im new but hello and im new here.
i was a jw years ago but not for many years now.
i joined here because i was kicked off the last jw related board i was on.
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Seraphim23
It’s nice to know some boards can be tolerant.
Favourite museum has to be the natural history museum then the science museum.
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Hello
by Seraphim23 innot sure if this is the place to say hello and im new but hello and im new here.
i was a jw years ago but not for many years now.
i joined here because i was kicked off the last jw related board i was on.
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Seraphim23
Jgnat
I agree and that’s a good word `stultifying`. I think with me I tend look past people’s intellectual viewpoints when it comes to theology to see the genuineness or not of the heart inside. Such things are a bit like clothes to me in that they never tell one who is underneath. I think God is the same with the secret person of the heart being of such high value. It’s just so many of the followers who seem to have a hard time with it.
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46
Hello
by Seraphim23 innot sure if this is the place to say hello and im new but hello and im new here.
i was a jw years ago but not for many years now.
i joined here because i was kicked off the last jw related board i was on.
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Seraphim23
I should also add that during the time I got banned the mods there even started a thread filled with posts that they solicited from select members on why I was bad enough to be got rid of. I’m still shocked they went as low as they did, but I guess Jesus was murdered by fellow Jews so perhaps I got off lightly.
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Hello
by Seraphim23 innot sure if this is the place to say hello and im new but hello and im new here.
i was a jw years ago but not for many years now.
i joined here because i was kicked off the last jw related board i was on.
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Seraphim23
Thanks for that link Fernando. I’ll give it a look. Thanks again for all the other comments as well from everyone.
Jomavrick London is certainly a busy place lol. I live right in the centre of it near Paddington.
The other message board had a hierarchy who could not brook my biblical arguments that homosexuals are not condemned in the bible. So they banned me from talking about it even on a biblical basis, however when I switched subjects to things like evolution, which I accept as true, and Adam and Eve being in my view symbolic and the ramifications of that to biblical interpretation, and my philosophical method of asking questions and exploring theistic issues, despite the fact I believe in God and Jesus, they didn’t like it. So they set a trap for me by bringing up the gay issue themselves which compelled me to answer them. So they banned me for a month to begin with, for what they call a `time out` to think about what I was doing, even though they didn’t explain the reason for the time out until after the event. I did say to them that if I am not allowed to talk about homosexuality then such a rule should apply to everyone but that reasoning wasn’t accepted. So when one of their mods brought that subject up once again and I replied to it, I was banned on that basis permanently.
I think really it was because I had a different theology to theirs and they just didn’t like it. It was a board for JWs and x JWs billed as a haven for those who needed spiritual support, but anyone who didn’t fit that mould of belief who needed support was not welcome. In other words one is welcome there if one agrees with their theological views. If one goes too far away from what they think is essential doctrine, their number is up. Yet despite all this they think they are not part of organised religion. It is a fascination how one can become exactly what one is trying to escape or recover from without even realising it.
You can probably detect a bit of hurt in my explanation and that is true actually. To be hurt by a religion and then hurt again by others who were also hurt by that religion is not easy to take. It can make one feel welcome nowhere at all. However I do have lots of real-life friends so I’m ok but anyhow that’s what happened with the last board I was on. After that I made my own board because one cannot be kicked off one’s own board but it’s not very active so I came here. Fortunately this board doesn’t seem to be against different viewpoints.
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Conspiracy theories and the fear roller coaster, or reassurance ride?
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Seraphim23
Been thinking about why my fellow Christians often but not always seem fascinated with conspiracy theories? Then it struck me perhaps simplistically that people pay money to be scared. Money for amusement rides, like roller coasters, money for bad news in papers, money to be told they might go to hell in Church, but never does money ever get paid it seems to me to go on the reassurance ride. Yet the prince of peace that excels all thought that perfects perfect love that throws fear outside seems to be the exact antithesis of this mode of thinking.
So if people pay money for this, perhaps due to the addictive effects of adrenaline, how much will free fear be pursued? Is this why, despite Jesus eating meals with tax collectors and sinners, is there often the fear of the other and different exonerated and encouraged in many Christian hearts despite its corrosive effects on society. Is this why Christianity and other faiths are more often than not the last to agree with social progress, as with the abolition of slavery, or women’s rights and now gay equality? Should they not in theory be at the forefront of social change that is a light to the world, rather than the world being its light with religion lagging miles behind?
If there be any argument of course over the question for instance of woman’s and equality with men being a benefit to society for example, one only has to take Christ’s advice to judge a tree by its fruits to see the benefits over what went before. What are the fruits of female equality with men? Less death associated with child birth, more wealth in a nation, technological progress, and many subcategories of these. Other benefits would include more understanding and respect for the concept of justice in society, self-respect, virtue synthesis and of course more peace on a general level. It seems to be that the benefits outweigh any negatives as it would with other aspects of the equality fight in society.
So what is with these conspiracy theories that to my mind so fascinate many fear based Christians? Is it a reaction against peace? After all no one pays money to go feed the ducks in the peaceful sunshine near the lake, yet the new slasher death film makes millions. I remember a line in the film the Matrix, where agent Smith said that the first Matrix that had been created for human habitation was made to be a paradise, where no one suffered and everyone would be happy, but that it failed due to the human’s primitive brain that kept trying to wake them up from its peacefulness. Could it be that the main enemy of Jesus` gospel message are such Christians who spread paranoia, fear, alienation and thus hate?
Any thought from anyone?
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Hello
by Seraphim23 innot sure if this is the place to say hello and im new but hello and im new here.
i was a jw years ago but not for many years now.
i joined here because i was kicked off the last jw related board i was on.
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Seraphim23
Hi Bangalore. Was feeling a bit out in the cold so joined here. How are you? I activated you on my board just to let you know because I wasnt sure if you knew you had been. It is supposed to send an e mail to let people know but not sure if it working.