Good points Oubliette. It’s the whole them and us mentality, which in some ways is probably at the heart of most racist impulses. Together with the whole judge and mental attitude, I mean judgemental attitude, it is a wonder to behold the corruption of true spiritual values by what religion all to often does best, divide!
Seraphim23
JoinedPosts by Seraphim23
-
20
Racist comment from Jehovahs Witness!
by Seraphim23 ini work as a concierge for a building in central london.
recently we had a new window cleaner firm take over, as the old boy who had done the job for years, retired!.
i noticed that the new guy (with assistant) was a jw because i asked for his business card and noticed the blood card nestled tightly in the wallet card holder compartment, as he reached for a card.
-
-
-
20
Racist comment from Jehovahs Witness!
by Seraphim23 ini work as a concierge for a building in central london.
recently we had a new window cleaner firm take over, as the old boy who had done the job for years, retired!.
i noticed that the new guy (with assistant) was a jw because i asked for his business card and noticed the blood card nestled tightly in the wallet card holder compartment, as he reached for a card.
-
-
Seraphim23
I work as a concierge for a building in Central London. Recently we had a new window cleaner firm take over, as the old boy who had done the job for years, retired!
I noticed that the new guy (with assistant) was a JW because I asked for his business card and noticed the blood card nestled tightly in the wallet card holder compartment, as he reached for a card. I told him my mother was a JW and he said we would have to talk more about it. I did not reveal that I was and still am a baptised JW and that I had faded and no longer believed in the creed because theocratic warfare strategy works both ways in my view.
In the block of flats I run, there is a sizable Muslim community with many traditional Muslim garbs worn also. Since my own spirituality and interest in science has taught me that skin colour means nothing, I concentrate on the character of a person’s heart, as though trying to peer through the interference of cultural differences to that end as much as possible. This means trying to get to know people! Since leaving the JWs faith many moons ago now, I think I have come way further that I ever did as a JW in seeing the spirit within, as opposed to the outside of a person. The bad side of this, is that I am very much more sensitive to all the forms of racism that come into view and there are many of them.
With this as the background this is what occurred! The guy turned up to do the buildings windows as I said, and after our small conversation I left him to get on with the work. A few hours went by and he had more or less finished and so I met them in the main lobby of the building. They were coming and going to their vehicle in the car park as this is next to the main lobby. Now as I was standing next to the main entrance a Muslim lady in her traditional dress came down in the lift with her 3 years old child in a push chair. I opened the door for her to exit into the car part. I noticed however that her little child had on a pair of exceptionally thick lensed glasses. After they left I made comment to the JW window cleaner that the kid had very thick glasses on. He acknowledged my comment and took me to one side in the main lobby and quietly said to me the following:
“The reason for this is because Muslims sleep with their cousins”.
Now where do I start in commenting on such a generalisation! Speaking personally I would never take an individual and assume anything either medically, or in terms of marriage practices without knowing the individual in question. Also in the UK it is legal to marry even first cousins, not that I would personally want to do so because of my own yuck factor. However I don’t have any issue with others doing so because the risk to any offspring is very small, hence its legality. Thus I concluded that this was in fact a racist comment by a JW. Interestingly this JW window cleaner is Portuguese in origin.
Thoughts?
-
63
Why did God/Jehovah/Jesus create Viruses and bacteria that can kill humans and animals?
by Jon Preston ini know this topic has been spoken about but i havent seen an official thead about it.
so theists why did god create these and why does he co tinue to allow them?
are they from the talking snake, satan?.
-
-
Seraphim23
I think I answered it Jon Preston.
-
63
Why did God/Jehovah/Jesus create Viruses and bacteria that can kill humans and animals?
by Jon Preston ini know this topic has been spoken about but i havent seen an official thead about it.
so theists why did god create these and why does he co tinue to allow them?
are they from the talking snake, satan?.
-
-
Seraphim23
Hi objectivetruth. It’s a deep subject this. I’m not sure I want to get deep into it with you on this thread as my reply above is aimed at an atheist who accepts evolution as true. I try to avoid debates on two fronts these days. I would love to chat about all these things with you some time though, perhaps on skype. Hope you don’t mind. I do agree with you about the existence of harmful spirits though. At least we are both theists. (0:
-
63
Why did God/Jehovah/Jesus create Viruses and bacteria that can kill humans and animals?
by Jon Preston ini know this topic has been spoken about but i havent seen an official thead about it.
so theists why did god create these and why does he co tinue to allow them?
are they from the talking snake, satan?.
-
-
Seraphim23
God created evolution which created bacteria and viruses in order for intelligent life to evolve. The reason he didn’t create it all instantly and without a preceding process like evolution as some believe, is because without science, or as it was called before the subject was ever formalised by humans, comprehension, there would be no ability to effect the surrounding world and hence no freedom.
Death was created by God in order to give real meaning and purpose in this life. Good cannot exist without bad and these two subjects themselves have meaning precisely because they are linked with each other, as well the physical world we live in, and also by extension, the laws of physics that underpin the universe. Remove bad and good has no meaning because freedom to choose one or the other is gone. Remove good, and again bad has no relevance in terms of choice, and hence is no longer bad because we would not have the ability to choose and be like a non-feeling computer that has no inner experience. Remove both good and bad and choice does not exist.
Life and death are simply the physical outworking of the physics that allows the universe to exist, namely entropy and order. When these two aspects of creation affect human beings, it gets called good and bad. An earthquake is part of how the world works as a place that can support life. If the earthquake kills people, it is called bad by humans, but as part of a system that supports life it is seen as good, even though it is the same process at work in both cases. The same principle is true for bacteria and viruses.
As Hebrew 9: 27 says:
27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
Death not being part of life is not a biblical teaching, it is a WT teaching that is in error as per normal.
Also as Isaiah says:
Isaiah 45:7
"I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the LORD, who does all these things..”
Some translations even use the word evil in this verse that God creates. However it is choice that God creates because choice depends on the ability to choose good or bad and meaning and purpose on life and death. God created the physical world so the mathematical logic of these things could have substance and us life. So thank goodness for viruses and bacteria and life and death.
-
105
Is my clinging on to a belief in a Creator doing me any harm?
by KateWild ini use the word clinging, as i feel that is what i am doing.
as far as my knowledge of science, namely chemistry is concerned, i am satisfied there is evidence of a creator.
i am happy to believe this.
-
-
Seraphim23
Seems to me Kate that you have your head on the right way round! Trust is a hard thing. I think Jesus got it right when he said to judge a tree by its fruit. Trust to me is a gift one gives or doesn’t with the full knowledge that it might be rejected. So evidence is key because it is the fruit by which we can judge at what point to give the gift of trust or not.
-
105
Is my clinging on to a belief in a Creator doing me any harm?
by KateWild ini use the word clinging, as i feel that is what i am doing.
as far as my knowledge of science, namely chemistry is concerned, i am satisfied there is evidence of a creator.
i am happy to believe this.
-
-
Seraphim23
Hi kateWild. I think beliefs can harm people and they can also help. In a way harm and help are relevant in terms of what the real truth about existence is anyway. Thus the same can be said regarding atheists also. Of course we live in a physical universe and so atheists will often do a bit better than believers for that reason in many ways. I could real of a list of atheist virtues at this point but I am a believer. So to me the question of an afterlife comes to mind. If this is the case then this physical dominance may be reversed in the future when we die or when the universe itself comes to an end. This only applies if there is an afterlife of course and the best way to search for an answer is to look into the realms of spiritual beliefs. It’s very `chicken and egg` in a way, if one looks at it only from the perspective of this life.
Take good and bad for instance. They seem to be dependant things in that one can’t have good without bad, or bad without good. Looked at logically and In terms of itself, it is impossible to come to an answer. Take the concept of up and down. The reason for up is down and down, up! They exist as co-dependent concepts that cannot be separated. However if `up` didnt exist one could not travel in a direction and holidays would be impossible. If however I was to say straight out that `up` exists in order that people might enjoy a holiday, people would not see any link between these two different things because there is a tendency to look at concepts only in relevance to itself. Logical loops are easy to get trapped in. Any resolution normally comes from looking outside the logical loop.
So on a universal level with the question of evil and the idea of God, the answer may well exist outside of this life and this universe. It depends on the truth of the question as to if God exists or not. Good and evil constitute a logical loop and thus an answer will not lie there as to Gods existence or not. Other things depend on good and bad existing which might give more clues on the matter of God of course including evidence that other realms exist or not.
Just a few thoughts I thought you might find helpful or interesting.
-
21
Suffering and Universal Sovereignty
by Trapped in JW land injust heard the special talk about why god allows suffering.
ugh... can't believe i used to believe this crap.
what do you all think of the universal sovereignty issue?
-
-
Seraphim23
Interesting satire!
-
21
Suffering and Universal Sovereignty
by Trapped in JW land injust heard the special talk about why god allows suffering.
ugh... can't believe i used to believe this crap.
what do you all think of the universal sovereignty issue?
-
-
Seraphim23
Well one couldn’t love without being able to hate anyway, just like good and bad being linked things. However it doesn’t mean he can exist and it doesn’t mean he can’t. It has no bearing on the issue of God or his existence because to say evil makes God seem like a sadistic monster also must mean that the good in the universe makes him out to be the complete opposite of a sadistic monster. If one combines a sadistic monster being with a compassionate saint being, the argument loses validity to the extent that no inference can be drawn about God or his existence or lack thereof.
-
21
Suffering and Universal Sovereignty
by Trapped in JW land injust heard the special talk about why god allows suffering.
ugh... can't believe i used to believe this crap.
what do you all think of the universal sovereignty issue?
-
-
Seraphim23
Seems to me that the reason for suffering must be linked with good not being able to exist without bad, and purpose without loss.