so, my question is (and i am posting this on the other board as well for any that know me there).. what is the difference between "fornication" and "loving intimacy"?
by loving intimacy, yes i am still talking about sex, but i am speaking of sex between two people that care about each other and are in a relationship of some sort as opposed to a one-night stand..... for me the difference would be:.
"fornication": 1 night stand.
Thanks Shera.
I am having a very hard time with this right now....I guess maybe it is because I haven't felt the way I do about her with anyone for quite some time...I dunno....Perhaps I am just trying to come to terms an understanding of the sudden 180 degree turn within someone I care about.
Thanks again, I shall continue reading this messageboard and trying to understand......
Sad,
Rais
so, my question is (and i am posting this on the other board as well for any that know me there).. what is the difference between "fornication" and "loving intimacy"?
by loving intimacy, yes i am still talking about sex, but i am speaking of sex between two people that care about each other and are in a relationship of some sort as opposed to a one-night stand..... for me the difference would be:.
"fornication": 1 night stand.
Oh, I want to add that all but one instance of sex with my (now apparently ex) gf was her initiating it, her "attacking me" so to speak (which trust me I DO NOT mind at all >:) )...just a very odd change overnight
so, my question is (and i am posting this on the other board as well for any that know me there).. what is the difference between "fornication" and "loving intimacy"?
by loving intimacy, yes i am still talking about sex, but i am speaking of sex between two people that care about each other and are in a relationship of some sort as opposed to a one-night stand..... for me the difference would be:.
"fornication": 1 night stand.
For me it's all good...I am all for just having sex for the sake of pleasuring whoever I may be with and myself...for FUN so to speak....BUT...I asked this question here because the JW gf is suddenly saying this is a BIG problem where it was not a scant few days ago, so I guess I was trying to get the JW take on it more than anything...LOL
I admittedly don't typically go out and just have sex with someone I meet, but that is just me, there is *usually* some type of connection there...not always, but 99% of the time...
I just cannot figure out what changed with her so suddenly.....and am trying to explain it to myself I guess....Maybe it is just that the JW Cult has twisted her brain up so much that I am twisting myself to try and work within her little world of JW B.S. F**K I dunno....
I don't even read the Bible...I just used it last night because I figured some JW would get on this thread and cite some Bible verse, so I figured I better do it first :) Sex is physical....I find it personally "better" when I care about my partner, but hey, that's just me.....
I titled the thread as I did to show a difference between "just going out and having sex with random people (so to speak)" and having sex with someone you are involved with...perhaps my choice of words was not so good.
Rais
so, my question is (and i am posting this on the other board as well for any that know me there).. what is the difference between "fornication" and "loving intimacy"?
by loving intimacy, yes i am still talking about sex, but i am speaking of sex between two people that care about each other and are in a relationship of some sort as opposed to a one-night stand..... for me the difference would be:.
"fornication": 1 night stand.
LOL SYN...
Seriously, it actually *does* matter to me in regards to the woman that I have been seeing. To me it's all good really....I only have about 5 things that I won't consider sexually...heh
It is just odd to me that she would consider it 'fornication' when we are in a relationship, where I wouldn't consider it 'fornication' (sex without being married) since we were in a committed relationship. I can say that because my ex-wife and I were never legally 'married', but were together for 9 1/2 years, and as long as you are committed to the other person, IMO anyway, it cannot be considered fornication...just my opinion..
Yes, the dictionary (Dictionary.com gives the definition of fornication as (bear with me here)
fornication
in every form of it was sternly condemned by the Mosaic law (Lev. 21:9[This relates to prostitution]; 19:29[This also relates to prostitution];
Deut. 22:20[This relates to a non-virgin wife], 21[As does this, where she has been promiscuous while in her father's house, which I can say that my girlfriend has not been in her fathers house since she was 16, so it also does not apply], 23-29[This relates to sleeping with one who is betrothed and raping her....not cool]; 23:18[This relates to paying a vow to the LORD with money from a prostitute]; Ex. 22:16[And this relates to seducing a virgin that is not betrothed and then being made to marry her]). (See ADULTERY.)
So, having went through all that I see not fornication in the biblical sense. In fact none of these apply to two people who are in a relationship with each other and have feelings for each other. Let's go on.....
But this word is more frequently used in a symbolical than in its ordinary sense. It frequently
means a forsaking of God or a following after idols (Isa. 1:2[This refers to rebelling against the LORD]; Jer. 2:20[Again we refer to being a prostitute]; Ezek.16[Again we talk about prostitution]; Hos. 1:2[here we talk about adultery against The LORD by departing from the LORD]; 2:1-5[And here we speak of a wife that has committed adultery against her husband]; Jer. 3:8[Here we speak of the land of Israel],9[And finally here we talk about the people forsaking the law of The LORD]).
Well, it just gets more interesting when you look at the passages quoted from dictionary.com and as to how they relate to fornicaton....In other words, it would appear that sex between two that are in a relationship is allowed, as it does not specifically speak against it. It does however speak against Prostitution, Rape and the forsaking of God. So some kind Christian (or preferrably a JW) show me where I am incorrect. One thing I will insist on however is if you are to quote scripture, that you quote it in context....as any one of the above can mean fornication in the sense that we are all used to the term meaning until it is quoted in context, at which time we learn that it does not mean in the quoted verses what we have been taught it means.
I AM
-Rais (The Darkness and The Light)
so, my question is (and i am posting this on the other board as well for any that know me there).. what is the difference between "fornication" and "loving intimacy"?
by loving intimacy, yes i am still talking about sex, but i am speaking of sex between two people that care about each other and are in a relationship of some sort as opposed to a one-night stand..... for me the difference would be:.
"fornication": 1 night stand.
So, my question is (and I am posting this on the other board as well for any that know me there).
What is the difference between "fornication" and "loving intimacy"? By loving intimacy, yes I am still talking about sex, but I am speaking of sex between two people that care about each other and are in a relationship of some sort as opposed to a one-night stand....
For me the difference would be:
"Fornication": 1 night stand
"loving intimacy": sex between two people that are in a relationship
Now, personally I do not like one-night stands, so I avoid them, but as I said, I see nothing wrong with sex between two people that genuinely care about one another and are in a relationship...
JWs, non-JWs, ex-JWs, what is YOUR opinion on the matter?
I AM
-Rais (The Darkness and The Light)
you know how the society pushes every one to do more, and more, and more....and those who don't do more without a super valid reason (like you're in a coma), are considered not "spiritual", right?
ok, they also tell single brothers and sisters who are pioneers or bethelites that they should only consider marrying those with the same spiritual goals....in other words....choose some one who "loves" jehovah just as much, meaning one who preaches 120 hours a month or works in bethel,etc.....right?
....well i think it is so unfair.. it's already bad enough that we cannot look at another human being from the opposite sex because they are not witnesses (never mind that they are excellent human beings, ones that would ashame many jws)....we also have to keep from falling in love with a pioneer or bethelite (if you are not one, because he or she will not give you the time of day) or from falling in love with a mere publisher ( if you are a pioneer , because the elders will suggest to let it go, and they will try and try until you give it up)( i've witnessed a huge case...that ended in a bethelite and a pioneer dying, litterally) isn't that appaling?
Thanks for the link, it was quite interesting reading...too bad for me that she will barely talk to me now even though as we spoke this evening the hurt was apparent in her voice and then she would turn it into anger...*sigh*
Oh well, I wish her Happiness and Prosperity (Yeha-Noha) and perhaps our paths will cross again, as if indeed there is a "God" then we were obviously put together for some reason that I do not think we were as of yet alloed to find out...
-Rais
you know how the society pushes every one to do more, and more, and more....and those who don't do more without a super valid reason (like you're in a coma), are considered not "spiritual", right?
ok, they also tell single brothers and sisters who are pioneers or bethelites that they should only consider marrying those with the same spiritual goals....in other words....choose some one who "loves" jehovah just as much, meaning one who preaches 120 hours a month or works in bethel,etc.....right?
....well i think it is so unfair.. it's already bad enough that we cannot look at another human being from the opposite sex because they are not witnesses (never mind that they are excellent human beings, ones that would ashame many jws)....we also have to keep from falling in love with a pioneer or bethelite (if you are not one, because he or she will not give you the time of day) or from falling in love with a mere publisher ( if you are a pioneer , because the elders will suggest to let it go, and they will try and try until you give it up)( i've witnessed a huge case...that ended in a bethelite and a pioneer dying, litterally) isn't that appaling?
I just want to add to this thread an experience that I am in the midst of....
1) My wife and I of 9.5 years recently split up.
2) I met a woman that is really wonderful, who is also divorced
3) I found out that she was a Jehova's Witness and almost broke things off
4) I realized that her 'faith', her 'denomination' her belief in God that is not the same as mine (I am sometimes atheist, sometimes agnostic, sometimes a believer, mostly agnostic leaning towards atheism) really didn't matter to me in the big scheme of things,
Now, as of last evening I find out that she no longer wants to be involved because our involvement goes against her beliefs, it goes against the Jehova's WItnesses. I am absolutely devastated by this, because I do care for this woman, and she cares about me as well, or at least it seemed that way...we were almost never apart unless she was at work. I won't say that I had found 'love' again, but I had found what might grow into love...I don't believe in love at first sight anymore.
We would go to dinner, go to rent movies, go to the Bar, make love, whatever, sometimes just hold each other, but there was definitely the 'physical' aspect to our relationship as well. I still want her in my life, but now I feel that "Jehova's Organization" will prevent us from being together as God intended, meaning that two people meet, they fall for each other, and whatever happens happens, which is how it had been, until the last few days when suddenly all that changed...
Her JW brother I think has gotten into her head again, and told her that seeing me is not proper as (in her words) I am a part of the world, a wordly person and she is not supposed to be a part of the world...
Anyone have any ideas on what I can do here??? I am losing a fantastic woman thanks to the WBTS and I am (obviously) none to happy about it...
I AM
-Rais (The Darkness and The Light)
