Posts by 1009

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

Sorry, needed to spend some time with my (new) wife and slept during the night. Today I've to work. I will give some responses during the day, but one by one. There a lot of reactions here, I see I hit a snare. Is that correct English? English also is not my primary language, so I need some extra time to translate. I will try to response to each one of you. I see two very long replies, I appreciate that very much.

Now where did I stay? About here:

trujw
Hey it is estimated only 200,000 people have died from not having blood since 1945. No big deal. Jim jones only killed what 2000 people. A close friend of mine had his dad die. He should just get over it. Murder is murder if children die that could have been saved. Sorry I'm not over it.

That is ofcourse a serious issue. It is very sad when people die. I understand that a person who not supports the blood doctrine, becomes bitter when a loved one dies after refusing blood.

I remember a time I red in the newspaper a JW died from refusing blood. Later it became clear that the sister would have died anyway, even if she had accepted blood. So I always have my doubts when I read somewhere that a JW died from not having blood: was that really the cause? Also: I still prefer blood free alternatives.

I do not know the estimates. I think that is an overestimate. http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-than-50000-dead.html comes to an estimate of 50,000. But I got to admit: that is still a lot.

For an outsider it will always seem unreasonable to refuse a threatment, and when someone dies it is easy to blame the organisation that defined the doctrine. When I would have refused blood, that would be because I believed their doctrine is right. Nobody forced me to believe that. I made a choice. Maybe a wrong one. But to call WTG murderers? No, I (still) don't agree with that.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

joyfulfader
Of course we all had different experiences. Depends on the circles you were part of, the people you knew as well as your status and the status of your family. The familiar illustration of the blind men describing an elephant. We only see the parts we are exposed to. It's great that you don't have residual effects but deciding for everyone else that they have no right to feel them is irrational and unproductive.I come to the board because I can keep up with the latest JW thinking. It's helpful since I haven't been to a kh in 2 years. I stay in the loop of the latest "light" so when my parents mention something I know what they are speaking of. Keeps me ahead of the game without dealing with the org.
Perhaps being less critical of the pain of others would better you as a person now that you are out and happy. Perhaps you could use that happiness and freedom to encourage and inspire others rather than perpetuate the guilt. Some are just bitter and out to incite discord. Do you enjoy being one of them? Just curious.

Allthough I have no family or friends inside, I recognize that 'need' to be up-to-date.

But you are right: who am I to diminish to feelings of others? I just had other experiences and from what I experienced it is hard to understand the bitterness. I am trying, but maybe just to sober.

Maybe I can just add another perspective to this board: it wasn't all that bad. I did have a very good time as a JW, and I am sure many do have a good time today as well. So from my point of reasoning: why bother them?

Honesty
1009, have you considered seeking professional counseling?

Not a single second.

Hortensia
I imagine the one you knew was a nice safe KH with essentially nice people. If you had been the victim of the kinds of injustice experienced by many on this board, you might be more sympathetic. Well, I'm glad things weren't so awful for you. It's rather nice to know that not everyone suffered so much.
On the other hand, many have suffered a lot of damage from their years in the org. If you're fascinated with the JW religion, you might try learning about the kinds of wounds that were inflicted by the wtbts and its members, and how that damage affects a person's life.

I've seen a lot of congregations in my 30 years, also in the foreign language field. Yes, essentially nice people. Dumb, but nice. Some morons. I did have my conflicts with several elders, but they're too just humans. I cannot blame them for being like that.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

joyfulfader
you were obviously either closing your eyes or not in the loop those 30 yrs...bullying and abuse is a regular thing. maybe its all religion. i dont know. dont plan on finding out. i do know u are wrong on that point. its not the minority. Most just keep it hush hush to stay out of the "back room".

I was a happy JW and I did all what I did because I believed it was right. It turned out to be wrong and now I am out. Goodbye WTG. We had a nice time together, not anymore.

I just don't understand that so many of you had very different experiences. The way you describe it, it almost is like you talk about another religion, not the one I knew.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

label licker
It's pretty sad when [...] So now, what's your story and why are you here?

Sad things happen. I feel sorry for you. Sad things happened to me too. I got over it. Furthermore, I cannot blame an organisation for mistakes or even crimes of individuals.

LisaRose
If you have left the dubs, why are you coming here, repeating the same, tired lies the Watchtower likes to peddle? I heard for years the that all apostates are bitter, unhappy, evil people. I was quite surprised to find a lot of nice people here. Yes, people come here to talk about their experiences as Witnesses, but what is wrong with that? It was a big part of our lives, and when we were in we couldn't say these things. So what if we want to complain? No one is forcing you to read it.

I am actually very happy in my life, I have moved on, but at the same time I still have an interest. I leave for years, then check back in. I am glad I found out about the Candace Conti verdict and got to see the hilarious deaf masturbation and Sparlock videos. Stick around, you might learn something.

Like I said: it still fascinates me. It was my life as well. And JW still fascinate me, opponents as well. Why do people think the way they think? Isn't that awesome to unraffle? And I saw interesting stuff on this board, allready when I was still active. And I do believe that there are nice people here. I just have the feeling that some of them still cannot find any rest. Like I did.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

144001
If you were a JW, you should know damn well why people are "bitter."

I was all the way in, and honestly don't understand these bitterness. I was a happy JW, and now happy that I am out. No regrets though.

Jeffro
Typical of JW claims, you make reference to "the truth", as if there is necessarily some absolute 'truth'.
I know enough facts to know that JWs are definitely wrong. It's basic math.

I don't believe in an absolute truth anymore. And yes, JW are definitly wrong. But I cannot blame JW for what the believe.

Comatose
It is human nature to feel hurt when bullied and abused... I am surprised you find that so hard to understand.

"Bullied and abused"? Sure, individuals make mistakes, so there certainly will be people who got bullied and abused. But I am convinced that that is a minority. I didn't see or hear about any bullying or abuse in the 30 years I was in.

1009
Suffered injustice? The world is filled with that.

JeffroThat's a quite stupid response. Unless you are claiming that no one in any situation should ever feel bitter about any injustice they personally experience? A woman is raped? Oh well, people get raped all the time.
Someone's family gets murdered? Oh well, people get murdered all the time.
Brilliant logic.

OK, you might have a point there.

ablebodiedman I could keep quiet however, that would trouble my conscience.

So, they judge you. Now you judge them. You are no better.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

I always was a critical JW, now DF and agnost.
But still this religion fascinates me. In my eyes most JW are very sincere, but dumb sheep.

This board is filled with ex-JW. I see a lot of bitterness. Opponents. 'Apostates'. JW are soooo wrong. You guys are sooooo right.

Why are you such fierce opponents?

Suffered i njustice? The world is filled with that.
Unclear pedo-policy? Go to the court and blame the abusers.
No blood? I know more JW who died in car crashes than who died after refusing blood (non actually, in more than 30 years)
They shun ex-JW? I don't miss them.
JW have their doctrines. What is the problem with that? Let them. Do you claim to know the truth?
- No: Then you cannot judge who is right or wrong
- Yes: Then you are no better than JW

14

10 Questions for Elders when they start annoying you

by Terry in

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1009

Brainwashed people can explain away all logic.

And bitter people can make a issue of everything.

I think both sides (JW and opponents ) are blinded equally.

2

What Would Jesus NOT Do?

by whereami in

jw
friends

warning to fundies, you might want to avoid this.

your brain might start working.. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofjkl-3sne.

1009

Great video. I loved it!

14

10 Questions for Elders when they start annoying you

by Terry in

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1009

I don't think these questions will take you anywhere. Answered from the viewpoints of elders...

1. Why wouldn’t Christians think of their congregation as a kind of hospital? We are sick with sin and we’re trying to get well, right? What hospital kicks the sick ones out the door and keeps the healthy ones?

U nrepentant sinners are like uncooperative patients who refuse treatments. Some 'apostate' patiënts even tell other patiënts not to listen to the doctors anymore.

2. When you hire a coach to get you to the playoffs and win the big game, yet you lose...lose...lose.... do you FIRE him, or, do you keep him on? Well, then, how do you explain Fred Franz being made PRESIDENT after the 1975 fiasco?

What has baseball to do with God's arrangements? (Besides, I think it is pretty stupid to fire a once celebrated coach for loosing one game).

3. Knowledge about life, medicine, science, astronomy, mathematics, physics, chemistry & history is greater and more abundant today than ever before. If you ignore higher education now--who is going to be the most clueless jackass in the room in the years to come?

Who are the jackasses after Armageddon?

4. In a dark room you light a candle. If it is still too dark to see clearly—do you light a new candle and blow out the old one? Then, try again. Explain this New Light crap once more.

Don't take the illustration of 'light' too literal: i t is about comprehension, which grows over the years. See #3: 'Knowledge... is greater and more abundant today than ever.'

5. Humility consists of open willingness to admit mistakes and explain your failures with a promise NEVER to do it again. Arrogance, on the other hand, says this: "At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case."

Is h aving false expectations a 'failure'?

6. A Faithful Servant does not tell guests what they should eat. A Wise Servant would not dare cry, “Dinner is being served” while the guests just sit and wait and wait--unless he needed to have his crazy ass fired!

The Faithful Servant isn't just any slave, and the ones on the table aren't just guests. "Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time?" (Luke 12:42).

7. Peter denied Christ 3 separate times out of self-regard in the face of danger. Afterward, Jesus gave him the keys to the Kingdom Tell me again how any disfellowshipped person is WORSE?

Because they are unrepentant, Peter was repentant.

8.Willingness to die for a belief seems to be the delight of terrorists and every other radical fanatic. Why do Christians find it heroic too?

Rather death than disobedient. Isn't it heroic to follow the example of Daniels 3 friends, Jesus, and the first century christians?

9. Okay, you're telling me what "this generation" REALLY MEANS now.....so....um...what the hell was all that other crap YOU SAID IT MEANT?

It is an illustration to explain that the end will not come many centuries after 1914.

10. My mother suffered the pangs of birth so I could have life. She fed, me, changed my diapers, held me, dried my tears, taught me right from wrong and was always there for me. What kind of low-life ingrate will it make me IF I turn my back on her now because she won't quit smoking….and you just DISFELLOWSHIPPED HER!!

"Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works." - (2 Cor. 11:14, 15).

16

My first experience at KH

by InChristAlone in

jw
friends

thank you to all of you who commented yesterday.

no doubt you gave me an accurate description of what to expect.

when i first walked in, i was greeted by the jw who calls on my house.

1009

Very recognizable.

John 17:3
Kingdom Interlinear: "But this is the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you..."
NWT: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you..."

Although it is true that the NWT uses 'knowledge' here, the explication in the literature is that it involves a personal relationship:

Many translations of this verse differ slightly from the New World Translation. Instead of saying “taking in knowledge” of God, they simply render the verb “to know” God or “knowing” God. However, a number of scholars note that the sense of the word used in the original Greek involves something more—a continuous process, one that may even lead to intimate acquaintance with another.
- http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pl/r1/lp-e?q=w02%2012%2F15%20page%208

The practice is different though...