Posts by no-zombie

28

Do we blame the Governing Body too much?

by no-zombie in

i'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'v for vendetta'.

here in a dystopian state, the main character named v, explains why things have gone so bad ....

those who do not want us to speak.

no-zombie

I started this thought because I was reading about North Korea.

You see North Korea has only been a totalitarian state for a relatively short period of time, from the 1950s as I understand. This means that there are people still alive in that country who still remember the time when it was quite free. However, despite the DPRKs incredibly repressive nature, its physical control over ever facet of human life, there has been NO acts of rebellion by its people, ever. Which I found rather strange.

Conversely in Ukraine, its people protested against its Russian backed government, kicking them out of power in 2013 in what was later called the Revolution of Dignity, despite the fact that over 100 demonstrating Ukrainians were killed by police snipers.

With this in mind, think about the following for a minute.

Say by some freak of bad luck, every Governing Body member and Helper suddenly died of food poisoning, leaving only one candidate to take over ... Donald J. Trump.

How long would it take before his antics caused a revolution amongst the Brotherhood? Or what if Stalin, Idi Amin and Poll Pot were at the helm at Warwick HQ? Of course the whole religion would collapse overnight because every single Jehovah's Witness would disassociate themselves from the faith. And while this is a hyperbola, the point I'm making is that there is a actually really narrow tolerance, people have for their leaders and there is a definite tipping point when political misconduct causes revolution.

This being the case, when we think back to North Korea, we have to ask why haven't the North Korean's rebelled when the Ukrainians did ... clearly its because their system is tolerable to the collective Korean mindset. Where as the threshold for Ukrainians was a lot, lot lower despite the high cost they had to endure to get change.

So, if we go back of our situation, I believe we (the general Brotherhood) have a Governing Body in it current form, because they are in our collective band of tolerance, as are their teachings. As a direct consequence, SOME responsibly of the actions of the Governing Body must fall on our shoulders, because of our support of them or allowing them to remain a part of our lives. After all we all thought that the Truth was great at some point, and you can only get disfellowshiped, if you've previously agreed to their rules and been baptized as a Jehovah's Witness.

These facts are the basis of the term 'collective responsibility'. And it was due to this clear ethical principle that every individual German was punished (financially, technically and socially) at the end of WW2 because of their 'collective' support of Hitler and the Nazi party, independent what they did during the war.

Yes, there are many victims of the Society (and some have been hurt very badly) however constantly 'playing the victim' and denying ALL responsibility after leaving, isn't psychologically helpful either ... because as any good psychiatrist will tell you, the only power someone has over you, is the power you give to them.

28

Do we blame the Governing Body too much?

by no-zombie in

i'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'v for vendetta'.

here in a dystopian state, the main character named v, explains why things have gone so bad ....

those who do not want us to speak.

no-zombie

I'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'V for Vendetta'. Here in a dystopian state, the main character named V, explains why things have gone so bad ...

Those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.

How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well, certainly, there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. They were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic, you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

From this and from a loose quote from Winston Churchill who said that "political leaders are just a reflection of their peoples", I would like to propose that while everyone blames the Governing Body for the behavior of the Organization, ultimately does not the real problem lie with Jehovah's Witnesses themselves and their own temperament?

I asked this question, to raise the idea that our bitter criticism of the Governing Body could be tempered perhaps with a look towards those who support them ... the general Brotherhood and their own responsibility in keeping them in power.

Now some may say that I was born into this Faith, cultured or formed by it and I have known nothing else. And that would be true for many of us, me included. However aside from the whole nature-nurture discussion, there does comes a point (and it might only be one single moment of clarity) when all of us see and understand our religion for what it is. Yet most Witnesses allow this epiphany to pass for the reasons mentioned by V. Thus I can only conclude, that most who attend a congregation have made a deal within themselves (either consciously or subconsciously) to accepted the Faithful Slaves' promises and agreed with the personal compromises, because their world views, their behaviors and attitudes, already harmonize with what is coming from the platform.

Why do I say this? Simply because, despite five successive generations of Witnesses never seeing the promised paradise in their lifetime (which has always been the Society's key prophesy); the Faith continues to exist. And if we are brutally honest, by far the greatest majority of those who leave the religion, have done so only after being punished or negatively effected by it in some way and not for purely philosophical reasons.

Thus, is not the Jehovah's Witness faith and the Governing Body just not a reflection of the people who attend its meetings?

I'm beginning to think so ... and as a result, perhaps I should look more at myself than others, to understand why things are the way they are.

12

"the other sheep will feed the other sheep"

by enoughisenough in

interesting statement in this video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zchsc1wedns.

no-zombie

As I've said for years (and I can't understand why others here on this forum don't get it) age demographics is everything. The Organization is dying, not because of the lack of interest from worldly people, donations or the child abuse allegations ... but only because Witnesses can't keep their kids in the truth. The Faith is very, very quickly becoming a old people's retirement village. Of course, the other factors do matter, but without new blood its doomed. You can bank on it.

Its just like when people say China, China, China ... thinking that it will take over the world. China is so screwed, its not funny. With a birth rate of 1.6, China will be economically and politically crushed by its collapsing workforce and an exploding aged tax and social burdens, in 25 years at the latest. This is not wishful thinking, it is predictive fact.

In regards to us, the generation of Witnesses who are now late teens and very early twenties, will see the most radical restructuring of the Organization, that will make all other changes of the past look weak in comparison. Why ... because the the GB will have no choice, when even now our growth rate (the birth rate equivalent) in this years report to be most likely be ZERO. In actual fact, our real growth rate is already -2.42%, when you align us to the global population fertility rate.

Just think about it for a moment ... and then think about the changes that must be made.

15

Deleting Elders Watchtower Style

by Vanderhoven7 in

the only spirit-directed organization on earth never ceases to amaze me.. https://www.youtube.com/live/0u2ohrbdm-c?feature=share.

no-zombie

Notice how the Elder in question is the one with a poor attitude. Yep ... slouching in his chair, huffing and puffing, angry ... just like how they stereotype worldly people and people with beards, tattoos and beer.

I was that guy, when they told me that I was going to be deleted as an elder, I'd say ... "you know what, thanks."

But in all seriousness, despite the Organization saying that they aren't against higher education, things like these just prove otherwise.

68

Is JW.org going Broke?

by Vanderhoven7 in

https://youtu.be/e6gh6w7v03y.

no-zombie

Sorry guys, don't read too much into this 'levy' as it been going on for years. Yes, it did have its start when the Watchtower and Awake magazine became free to congregational publishers to distribute, but now that the Organization has gone mostly digital (baring the limited runs of the 'public editions') Witnesses feel that its just a operational cost that should be covered.

And realistically ... a request of Publishers for $2.50usd per week, is nothing like asking for a 10% tithe. Why its not even the price of a take-away cup of coffee.

5

Anyone have an NDE or help me with mine?

by BeaverEater in

jw
friends

approximately, 14 years ago i experienced a very violent explosion.

i was air vacd to another city and died in route.

i dont remember going anywhere or seeing a light, but it was after the fact that got weird.

no-zombie

Near Death Experiences are very common. And while most people attribute them (and their visions of the afterlife) due to previously held religious and world views, the confusion around them is most likely a mix of 'survivor guilt', PTSD and lack of medical knowledge. However to find out why NDEs happen in the first place, we have to first understand the difference between 'clinical death' and 'biological death', and most importantly, how the process or timeline of biological death, effects the brain.

It all revolves around blood flow and those portions of the brain that most needy. They are the first the disintegrate and dump their neurological transmitters into the system. So I suppose the order would rather crudely be; the frontal lobe (which basically controls intellectual thought and memory), then the Parietal lobe (which handles the human senses) and then finally the areas around the mid brain (which oversees the unconscious bodily functions). That's why when people have been resuscitated after around 3-4 minutes of clinical death, they are often no more than vegetables, due to the fact that most of the high-order brain centers have been irreparably damaged.

While I'm not a doctor or a psychiatrist, if you can't seem to let go of these feelings or put them into their proper perspective, I would recommend returning to a medical specialist for help. As with all brain injuries, you should expect some ongoing issues that may last quite some time, but new synaptic pathways form in our brains every day and recovery is possible [conditions apply], so I wouldn't give up hope.

8

New NWT

by NotFormer in

is it very different from the old version?.

has it changed much?.

how can i get a copy?

no-zombie

I'd say that there are some considerable differences between the NWT and NNWT, so much so that I think of the NNWT as Jehovah's Witnesses' GOOD NEWS bible.

In actuality the NNWT (despite its ongoing online updates) is really the third generational version Witnesses use. The first being the green editions, the black second version and what we have today ... being the grey/silver one.

As we know the NWT was originally released as a series of volumes from 1953. And I do consider them to be a rather good 'word for word' translation barring the decision to insert the word JEHOVAH into the Christian Greek scriptures, where there is clearly no authority for them to do so. In fact it is clear that the use of JEHOVAH in some verses was inserted to "clarify" or shape their meaning, which runs foul of REV. 22:19.

The second iteration was released in 1984. This was the first leather bound, traditional looking Bible, which Witness took into the ministry and honestly, it something that many took pride in using. It was well bound and had a easy to read font. However, the unfortunate tradition to include the use of the word JEHOVAH was only expanded in the New Testament.

Finally, we have the third attempt by the 'Faithful Slave' to produce a copy of the Bible, offered in 2013.

While some would say that it was easier to read (which I doubt its relevance, as I still consider the 1611 King James as quite understandable if you want to put the smallest of effort into it), the publishers once again decided to move further away from the word-for-word concept of Bible translation and go with a more looser text. This allowed them to make modifications that colored it's wordings to reflect Watchtower doctrine. Case in point, is the word SOUL, which has now been almost completely removed from the NNWT. Another example can be seen is the revisions and inclusions of words to reflect the concept of a 'governing body' in the first century. To my mind, this is inexcusable for people who claim other Bible translations, as tainted.

In summery, the NNWT is a poorer version, for those people who wish to have a translation that attempts to reflect the original manuscripts because it has shown over time, to value prose over textual accuracy.

Of course it only my opinion ... and who am I? Not spirit anointed Governing Body member with an expert handle on the Hebrew and Greek languages, that for sure.

167

Anthony Morris the III has been FOUND

by Terry in

jw
friends

note: photos can be found on the blue envelope channelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nakezkhqbmtony and susan morris are living in lumberton, north carolina.

a real estate document on the robeson county website is filed:.

the religious order of jehovah's witnesses has provided a "life estate" for them.they can live in this townhouse until they are deceased or choose to move away and in either case the ownership becomes entirely the property of jehovah's witnesses.

no-zombie

I'd just like to put a little bit of perspective into the so called 'fantastic' deal that Tony got.

Whether you love him or hate him, he really didn't get a good payout.

I'll explain.

Any manager (even a upper mid-level manger) of a billion dollar corporation would easily earning over 200k a year, plus a nice car and expense account for wining and dining clients. On severance, these people typically get extra, as per their contracted conditions. Which can vary between two weeks pay per year of service to four weeks pay. So going with the low numbers (of 200k x [two weeks per year] x 17 years), such a manager could easily expect a payout of over 130k, not including any superannuation or insurance contributions.

Now lets go back to Tony ... and what he exactly received.

Firstly, he got a 2 bedroom duplex (not a house), in on rezoned country property ... THAT HE CAN NOT SELL. Why? Because the Organization are co-owners. So in reality, all what Tony and his wife received was rent free accommodation for life, while they live in that dwelling.

Plus he got a used mid spec'd Cadillac sedan (not a BMW or Mercedes normally driven by company executives) ... and a meager pension.

Why do I say a 'meager' pension? It clearly because if it was a substantial pension, worthy a person who controlled so much company assets and personnel ... would such a person choose to live in 'boring vill' after living a life of prominence? I think not. You'd just buy or rent somewhere else.

But for me a more interesting question to ask, is how did this deal come about?

While the relationship between the Governing Body and Tony was clearly complex. We could assume, that they would have threatened (or implied to) disfellowship him on the grounds of his alcoholism or apostasy. He could have counter threaten (or implied) to go public as Ray Franz did. But in the end, I think that Tony blinked and took the deal they offered, scared the he'd loose access to his family, even though I believe that he had a stronger negotiating hand.

Thus by my accounting, he didn't get a good deal, from any way you look at it. As he could have made literally millions by going public through book deals, TV interviews (and state's witness) for years to come. But strangely enough, I think Tony is still a true believer, only now a little more confused about how things turned out for him.

As it is now though, just don't think that he came out a winner, as he didn't.

He's just become one of the loneliest people in the world.

167

Anthony Morris the III has been FOUND

by Terry in

jw
friends

note: photos can be found on the blue envelope channelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nakezkhqbmtony and susan morris are living in lumberton, north carolina.

a real estate document on the robeson county website is filed:.

the religious order of jehovah's witnesses has provided a "life estate" for them.they can live in this townhouse until they are deceased or choose to move away and in either case the ownership becomes entirely the property of jehovah's witnesses.

no-zombie

While I am no lover of the Governing Body, the facts around Tony Morris's housing arrangements prove that the GB are not skimming off donated funds into their personal accounts. And judging by being given a used car for his personal use, I expect that his 'pension' from the Society would only be, not that more above his costs of living.

7

What Did the Following People Have in Common?

by no-zombie in

what did the following people have in common?.

1 job2 the widow of zaraphath3 naaman4 the samaritan leper (one of the 10 lepers)5 the roman army officer of capernaum6 cornelius and his guestsnone were ...israelitesjewish convertspart of the abrahamic covenantchristianspart of a christian congregationin a dedicated relationship with godorbaptizedhowever ...all were directly given holy spirit or individually blessed by god ... even though, they were not part of 'jehovah's organization'.take time to think what this really means.luke 4:24-29acts 10:34-35.

no-zombie

Witnesses might say that about Korah, Dathan, Abiram or Ananias and Sapphira, that's true. However their stories was a little more complex than being simply disobedient to Moses or the Apostles.

Regardless of that, while a case could be made that God has used organizational structures over time for his own ends, a person would be on shaky grounds Biblically if they claimed that personal salvation is impossible without being a part of one (the current blessed one, that is), which was sort of the point Jesus was trying to make in Luke chapter 4.

But if that is that case, then modern day Witnesses should speak fondly of the people who become Catholics between the years of 4th and 14th century, as that organization was clearly used by God to preserve the Bible.