Big Dog is right but since the GB split the legal entities from the religious organization (done in the 90s I think), being a share holder means very little today. Its now become a kind of royal Gala event, for the connected to feel important. I'd rather just go out and get some pizza.
no-zombie
JoinedPosts by no-zombie
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no-zombie
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26
Is the USA gradually moving to a majority of citizens being non-religious
by Reasonfirst inthis is a topic discussed in a current article in the hongkong based asia times*.
find it at: https://asiatimes.com/2023/09/nones-still-no-match-for-us-christian-nationalism/.
the claim is made in the article, that near 30% of americans are non-believers, and that this number is increasing.
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no-zombie
However I'd be much happier if those churches were Catholic or Protestant than Korowain.
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Is the USA gradually moving to a majority of citizens being non-religious
by Reasonfirst inthis is a topic discussed in a current article in the hongkong based asia times*.
find it at: https://asiatimes.com/2023/09/nones-still-no-match-for-us-christian-nationalism/.
the claim is made in the article, that near 30% of americans are non-believers, and that this number is increasing.
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no-zombie
I think that traditional religions in a practical way (in compared to having a nameless faith), provide communities of people who basically agree to uphold similar moral values. And I would go as far as to say that they may actually be critical for the long term continuation of human civilization.
While it maybe a controversial thing to say in a growing secular world, for those who might think having churches is not that important, they may be missing two important things.
Firstly, not everyone has the same capacity to live life without the emotional and social support a church can bring. Now I would imagine that while most of us here on this board, have likely been harden by our experiences with the Organization and are now quite resilient and strong independent thinkers, many that we previously called 'worldly' are not, particularly when they have aged or experience personal tragedies, as demonstrated many times over by increased church attendances during wars and other disasters.
And secondly, while it might seem easier being a 'lone wolf' as an individual, no one is going to survive in life without friends of some kind. Which is going to be harder if the people around you, wonder if you are having sexual designs on their mate, plan to forcefully steal from them or commit some other kind of antisocial alpha chimpanzee action. Even packs of dogs have rules, and to live with others (at any level) there needs to some control or moderation over impulsive behavior. YouTube is full the results when 'Karens' and 'Kens' reject community norms, even now ... and we all know how it works out for them.
Thus I believe that without a sustained standard of community morals (which religions are very good at providing), global society will eventually de-evolve into a Mad Max world were everyone is his own god ... which would be far worse than having a few gothic buildings in our suburbs.
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Is the USA gradually moving to a majority of citizens being non-religious
by Reasonfirst inthis is a topic discussed in a current article in the hongkong based asia times*.
find it at: https://asiatimes.com/2023/09/nones-still-no-match-for-us-christian-nationalism/.
the claim is made in the article, that near 30% of americans are non-believers, and that this number is increasing.
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no-zombie
Personally, I'm coming around to the opinion that churches and church attendance does play a useful roll in society. It gives many people continuity and a connection to others, and it has been proven to promote mental health and longevity. Any religion is ok, Catholic or Protestant ... nothing too radical.
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Is the USA gradually moving to a majority of citizens being non-religious
by Reasonfirst inthis is a topic discussed in a current article in the hongkong based asia times*.
find it at: https://asiatimes.com/2023/09/nones-still-no-match-for-us-christian-nationalism/.
the claim is made in the article, that near 30% of americans are non-believers, and that this number is increasing.
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no-zombie
I saw part of a lecture from Jordan Peterson, who made very logical argument to say that even the most strongly avowed atheist still operates with Judao-Christian principles. So while it may be true that less people go to church or claim a particular faith, it doesn't mean that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. It just means people do not conscientiously see value in these social structures. Not to worry, its all cyclical.
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Looking for quotes
by no-zombie ini've tried but failed to find these quotes.
if anyone knows where they are, that would be great.. #1 reading the wt and awake magazines for a few years, is like getting a uni degree.. #2 don't bother learning old greek or hebrew because its a waste of time, besides we've got it covered.. thanks.
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no-zombie
I've tried but failed to find these quotes. If anyone knows where they are, that would be great.
#1 Reading the WT and Awake magazines for a few years, is like getting a uni degree.
#2 Don't bother learning old Greek or Hebrew because its a waste of time, besides we've got it covered.
thanks
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Are Elders prepared to take the fall for WT/GB misdemeanor's / crime ??
by smiddy3 ini have been thinking about this in relation to the directive given to elders to destroy any incriminating evidence they may have either on their pc`s ,e-mails , private notes in their possession, or notes in their witnessing bags ,etc.
to do with child sexual abuse they may still have in their possession.. isn`t that encouraging the elders to interfere with the justice system ?.
to break the law?.
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no-zombie
In the real world, if you delete or destroy documents relating to a crime, it is a crime. However PIMI Elders are waging Theocratic Warfare and it is through this lens that they justify their actions and obedience to the Organization.
Sadly many will still not understand that when they get convicted as accessory's to the fact, they have in reality just been thrown under the bus by the Governing Body.
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Exes: Would You Rat On A Current JW?
by NotFormer init's an interesting thought.
if you are an ex jw, presumably dfed, and you see a current jw in good standing engaging in behaviour that would concern their elders, would you pass on that information to interested parties?
do accusations from exes and other outsiders carry any weight?
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no-zombie
If I learned something these days, I'd just keep it to my self. Except if it was a serious crime, then I'd go to the police.
But it doesn't matter, as most people confess anyway in the end. Its part of our psychological makeup.
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Fellow exElders: did you ever get to hear of ...
by no-zombie inwhen i was serving as an elder, it because relatively common to hear of wild drunken house parties of witness youths.
i investigated one, it was so bad that the cops turned up and found empty bottles of whiskey on the lawn and smashed out on the road.
but every led went cold, with all the kids clamming up.
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no-zombie
When I was serving as an Elder, it because relatively common to hear of wild drunken house parties of Witness youths. I investigated one, it was so bad that the cops turned up and found empty bottles of whiskey on the lawn and smashed out on the road. But every led went cold, with all the kids clamming up. However one parents say to me (with a smile) that I wasn't going to get very far at all, as most of them were children of other Elders from the greater area, and I was just wasting my time.
He was right, of course ... I did just waste my time.
In another party I learnt that some boys used to bring condoms in their wallets ... and they weren't used for party tricks either.
It used to blow my mind, as the main suspects were never fringe dwellers and were always very presentable at meetings and assemblies. I found it hard to comprehend all of it, as was a sort of mobile phone organized underground sub-culture, were kids from all over the city used to hook up.
Were these things common in your circuit too? Or was it just us?
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Do we blame the Governing Body too much?
by no-zombie ini'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'v for vendetta'.
here in a dystopian state, the main character named v, explains why things have gone so bad ....
those who do not want us to speak.
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no-zombie
I started this thought because I was reading about North Korea.
You see North Korea has only been a totalitarian state for a relatively short period of time, from the 1950s as I understand. This means that there are people still alive in that country who still remember the time when it was quite free. However, despite the DPRKs incredibly repressive nature, its physical control over ever facet of human life, there has been NO acts of rebellion by its people, ever. Which I found rather strange.
Conversely in Ukraine, its people protested against its Russian backed government, kicking them out of power in 2013 in what was later called the Revolution of Dignity, despite the fact that over 100 demonstrating Ukrainians were killed by police snipers.
With this in mind, think about the following for a minute.
Say by some freak of bad luck, every Governing Body member and Helper suddenly died of food poisoning, leaving only one candidate to take over ... Donald J. Trump.
How long would it take before his antics caused a revolution amongst the Brotherhood? Or what if Stalin, Idi Amin and Poll Pot were at the helm at Warwick HQ? Of course the whole religion would collapse overnight because every single Jehovah's Witness would disassociate themselves from the faith. And while this is a hyperbola, the point I'm making is that there is a actually really narrow tolerance, people have for their leaders and there is a definite tipping point when political misconduct causes revolution.
This being the case, when we think back to North Korea, we have to ask why haven't the North Korean's rebelled when the Ukrainians did ... clearly its because their system is tolerable to the collective Korean mindset. Where as the threshold for Ukrainians was a lot, lot lower despite the high cost they had to endure to get change.
So, if we go back of our situation, I believe we (the general Brotherhood) have a Governing Body in it current form, because they are in our collective band of tolerance, as are their teachings. As a direct consequence, SOME responsibly of the actions of the Governing Body must fall on our shoulders, because of our support of them or allowing them to remain a part of our lives. After all we all thought that the Truth was great at some point, and you can only get disfellowshiped, if you've previously agreed to their rules and been baptized as a Jehovah's Witness.
These facts are the basis of the term 'collective responsibility'. And it was due to this clear ethical principle that every individual German was punished (financially, technically and socially) at the end of WW2 because of their 'collective' support of Hitler and the Nazi party, independent what they did during the war.
Yes, there are many victims of the Society (and some have been hurt very badly) however constantly 'playing the victim' and denying ALL responsibility after leaving, isn't psychologically helpful either ... because as any good psychiatrist will tell you, the only power someone has over you, is the power you give to them.