Posts by no-zombie

5

India Bomb Blast Suspect's Claims Are False And Misleading, Say Jehovah's Witnesses

by Tahoe in

https://www.ibtimes.com/india-bomb-blast-suspects-claims-are-false-misleading-say-jehovahs-witnesses-3717518 .

key points.

three separate blasts ripped through a gathering of jehovah's witnesses last sunday.

no-zombie

One of the problems not discussed, is the fact that India is a highly religious society with centuries long history of intolerance towards non-Hindu faiths. And while Indian Hindus would like to promote a more stoic or spiritual view of themselves, we only have to remember that over a million people died due to religious violence during the Indian/Pakistan partition of 1947, that Mahatma Gandhi was killed by a nationalist Hindu group (directly because of his tolerant philosophies towards Muslims) and that violence against Christians (and Christian missionaries) still continue.

This being that case, it should be hardly surprising when violence against Jehovah's Witnesses occurs, as it sadly seems to be a more justifiable response to religious conflict, in the minds of some Indians.

Religious violence in itself however is an interesting topic, and while most people would put it down to ignorance and poverty (which would seem to fit in problems of the Indian subcontinent), it more exactly the product of a perceived imbalance of power and a lost of authority. Thus when a person or a group feel like they have been marginalized by another group, then animosity grows ... which sometimes results in violence.

83

Thought on “0 hours” reporting

by FFGhost in

so everyone knows the “big news” of this past weekend, no more reporting of hours, placements, return visits, etc.

beginning november 1, jws just tick a box indicating whether they “shared in any form of the ministry during the month”.. so there was a brief comment by a redditor that seems like a brief joke “throwaway comment” but after thinking about it….why not?.

the idea is, what is “any form of the ministry”?

no-zombie

Why I said that the Governing Body only changes things because it benefits them, can be seen in nearly every big change they've made.

For example, why were District conventions reduced in length from 7 to 3 days long? Because attendance was dropping off, and it cost them money to rent these facilities. Why was the Watchtower and Awake magazines shrunk until our letterbox junk mail, are thicker? Because the Organization realized that householders were just throwing them in the bin and they were wasting money. Why do Kingdom Halls have no building insurance? Because the Governing Body, knew that they could save the premiums by getting its free labor force to repair its damaged properties for nothing.

Its just the same pattern now repeating but in organization context. So you can bet the Governing Body hasn't dropped the reporting requirement for nothing ... particularly since its been such a great tool to pressure conformity.

The reasons will manifest themselves in due time, however we may have to wait until next years AGM to see if these changes are part of a trend.

83

Thought on “0 hours” reporting

by FFGhost in

so everyone knows the “big news” of this past weekend, no more reporting of hours, placements, return visits, etc.

beginning november 1, jws just tick a box indicating whether they “shared in any form of the ministry during the month”.. so there was a brief comment by a redditor that seems like a brief joke “throwaway comment” but after thinking about it….why not?.

the idea is, what is “any form of the ministry”?

no-zombie

My accountant once said to me ... "the tax department never changes anything, unless there is something in it for them".

That being the case, we can be sure that the Governing Body isn't making these changes to some how lighten our load. No ... it would be to primarily befit themselves.

So I'm going with the ideas of ... saving money by going full digital, and dropping the embarrassing Annual Report.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

ExbethelitenowPIMA, I think that are missing the points I'm trying to make.

You are not going to get a revolution to over-throw the Governing Body's authority in the congregation. Raymond Franz, was our best chance and even he failed to reform the Organization ... and do you have more leverage than him? I think not. No, I don't trust the Governing Body to do the right thing, But I am anticipating that they will change the Faith because they will have too. As It will be a case of change the religion or watch it perish.

However, if you are determined to start some kind of fifth column, you can try ... but I know how it will work out, and it will not be good for those involved.

end of comments

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

ExbethelitenowPIMA ... it could take 5 years for the Organization to tone down to become effectively different. However say you are personally bothered by a particular doctrine (say the literal interpretation of the 144,000), you might get relief a bit earlier. Even then, the best you could say to your friends would be ... "finally, I always knew that the 144,000 was a symbolic number."

However on a another thing that you mention previously ...

You know all those clandestine bible study groups we heard about, in the end they all collapsed. It was either through people leaving the Faith on their own accord, because they realized that nothing was going to change without the GB's say so ... or they got ratted out. Its just what has historically happened.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

ExbethelitenowPIMA, I think that it still would be a mistake to publicly voice your differences regarding the Governing Body and their teachings. Because if the trend we are seeing continues to develop, it could take 5 years before the Faith has toned down, but during that time, it still would be easy to get disfellowshipped for apostasy.

Even if others in the congregation may fully agree with you, remember that nothing changes until the very day the Governing Body publicly announces it. Thus while it may be frustrating, we must take comfort in knowing at least we are free in our minds and have the hope of sunnier days.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

I know that there are many people here that would be happy to see the Warwick and Paterson buildings on fire, along with all the closing of the rest of the world's churches and places of worship. But that fact is, it will never happen. Religion and along with it, its buildings and organizational structures has always been with mankind and always will be. I'd go as far as to to say that the act of worshiping God may even be genetic, of which there is some evidence. This being the case, wouldn't it be better to have religions that are benign, or better still, ones that act as forces of good in our communities? For me I'd say, yes?

So if we get back to the rather whimsical notion of a JW LITE religion, I think that if someone stripped away all the painful parts of the Society and build on what was good about it (of which I believe there is quite a lot), it could become something that people might want to join than rather leave.

For example, Jehovah's Witnesses are known world wide as being a honest and moral people. We do have a history of being a people who are willing to stand up for our beliefs, particularly as pacifists and ones who want the traditional family rolls to remain. And while smothered a little, we know that Jehovah's Witnesses respect the Bible and (on a individual level) do try to lead a spiritual life. These are not bad things.

Thus if the pain of disfellowshipping was removed the the Faith, if child abuse issues were correctly handled, if people could practice their own conscience (by going to university and the like), would not being a Jehovah's Witness be a good thing for some people? Once again ... I'd say yes!

However will a LITE version of Jehovah's Witnesses it appear? I'm not that hopeful, as it would go against every fiber of the current Governing Body. For them to loose control (to the degree required) would be a very, very hard pill to swallow. But stranger things have happened. Who would have guessed that the GB would remove the need to report field service hours? I wouldn't have. So perhaps there may be a little room for optimism, after all.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

I'd support a version of JW LITE if it looked something like this ...

1. If it supported and encouraged the development of a person's Christian conscience.
2. If it supported and encouraged personal Biblical research and free speech.
3. If it had a minimal organizational structure, that wasn't a worshiped identity.
4. If it moved the Governing Body and other Church leaders into the background.
5. If the Governing Body clearly admitted being an accomplice in covering up past child abuse claims, with a solid commitment to directly report new child abuse reports to the police (regardless of being mandated or not).
6. If the Governing Body clearly took responsibility teaching or procedural errors.
7. If it 'taught' core Biblical truths, while it 'offered' explanations and interpretations for less solid Bible concepts.
8. If it supported core biblical moral values (like no sex before marriage, non-heterosexual sexual activity, drunkenness or drug use).
9. If it supported the basic nuclear family, by discouraging (not banning) divorce as a solution to marital problems.
10. If it protected congregational members from those who practice serious sin, through a 'marking' arrangement rather than a 'disfellowshiping' arrangement.
11. If it supported and encouraged a strong social congregations, through fellowship and real external outreach programs.
12. If the Organization provided clear, open and fully transparent financial accountability, world wide.
13. If it allowed people to exit the Faith without punishment or shaming.

and finally ...

14. If JW LITE didn't end up being some kind of emotion driven megachurch or arm waving evangelical movement.

67

Real reasons behind this change?

by Gorb in

jw
friends

just a good conversation at home about the hour report change.. we think the change was not impmemented because the gb are such a lovely bunch of old grandpa's having the best in mind for us individuals.. there will be only, and we say only, an organizational reason for it.

a legal reason, to protect jw.org and it's officials and wealth.. next step?

maybe selling more kh and when jw hollywood studio's in rampoo are ready a change to tv subscription.. what do you think?

no-zombie

Vidiot ... you are right of course, but I'd add that its because of ignorance that devout Witnesses allow themselves to believe in the Governing Body.

I have learned that the more that a person really studies history (not just superficially skimming through it), the more a person understands that war, famine and pestilence are mankind's constant companions ... and in some ways, their appearances not chaotic at all.

There is a term used by historians and political commentators sometimes ... the long peace ... that helps to describe the peace the modern world has enjoyed under Pax Americana. It was real. But now that America is a declining empire, 'the dogs of war' are once again slipping their chains. Call it a power vacuum, a fourth turning (see Strauss–Howe), call it whatever, but the world goes a bit unstable at the end of a world power's domination. It happened at the end of all the classic world powers that we know of ... and it will happen again.

So in many ways it should be expected that the weak, the depressed and impressionable will begin to feel like they are drowning in fear and be full of anxiety over the future. And like any drowning man, they will naturally grab hold of anything floating around them, even if it is a piece of rotten old wood ... or a insincere religion.

45

List of main points from 2023 AGM

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

1. doctrinal changes how new light comes about.

the gb raise questions then talk about it, unless it’s unanimous they wait, then years later talk again if it’s unanimous it then gets announced as new light.. 2. the gb are imperfect and sometimes make mistakes.

they are not to apologise or even admit they were wrong.

no-zombie

ExBethelitrnowPIMA ... can you explain your point below, a bit more?

"... now they are saying pretty much everyone will make it through and then during the 1000 year reign everyone can decide if they want to live in paradise ..."

thanks