Posts by no-zombie

6

Massachusetts JW exile

by oldstory70 in

i am way late to the party on this message board but i saw that there were some folks from the new england area who had stories about familiar jws that i grew up with.

my story, as brief as i can tell it, goes like this.. i was born in boston, ma in the early 70s to two my mom and dad who were in their early 20s and woefully unprepared for marriage and raising kids.

dad becomes drunk and violent, mom is bipolar, desperate and high strung and looking anywhere for help.

no-zombie

Welcome oldstory,

You'll find many of us have been wounded in some way, and this place is good for decompressing if you have a need. Anyway welcome aboard.

no-zombie

40

How does the Govering Body get enlightenment?

by no-zombie in

from the earliest of times of the catholic church's ecumenical councils were used to make major changes to its doctrinal direction.

decisions were made by bishops, they were ratified by the pope ... and it was done.

and the laity had to accepted them or not.. and while splinter catholic religions accepted most of these councils, non-trinitarian faiths which developed latter (of which jehovah's witnesses are apart) did not.

no-zombie

Of course in the 21st century there is going to be problems and issues, not directly commented upon in the Bible. And there are certain passages that are obviously, unclear. So in regards to this whole 'enlightenment' topic, I'm quite ok with speculation, provided it is talked about in that manner ... and treated differently to the commandments set out in stone.

Unfortunately this distinction doesn't exist with the Governing Body. And as a result, we find 'utterances born from holy spirit' that need to be revised, on a regular basis. Which I would think is rather embarrassing.

40

How does the Govering Body get enlightenment?

by no-zombie in

from the earliest of times of the catholic church's ecumenical councils were used to make major changes to its doctrinal direction.

decisions were made by bishops, they were ratified by the pope ... and it was done.

and the laity had to accepted them or not.. and while splinter catholic religions accepted most of these councils, non-trinitarian faiths which developed latter (of which jehovah's witnesses are apart) did not.

no-zombie

In the past, I used to believe like what TonusOh said in that "that they prayed to Jehovah, and God would use his Holy Spirit to guide their discussions and influence their decisions". But in time I saw that even that had a flaw, because the facts and the Society's history showed that sometimes Jehovah directed the Governing Body and sometimes he didn't. How could you know, which was which?

Even the claim that God 'influences" their decisions is too fluffy. In that, how does it work exactly? Wasn't that just another kind of 'revelation'? That's what used to get me going. How did anything work exactly? I mean in the first century, the apostles didn't have this problem. Either Jesus, an angle or a miracle directly told them what to do or what to believe and that was it.

I have the same sort problem when people say that Jehovah blessed them. Like really? Did he personally bless you ... or did someone read the Bible and decide to do something nice?

As a result I have my own conclusions about this topic today, but while those in the congregation love to talk about being 'God's special people', I've found that in the end, the actual mechanics of how things works is rather short on detail and sometimes very hard to believe.

40

How does the Govering Body get enlightenment?

by no-zombie in

from the earliest of times of the catholic church's ecumenical councils were used to make major changes to its doctrinal direction.

decisions were made by bishops, they were ratified by the pope ... and it was done.

and the laity had to accepted them or not.. and while splinter catholic religions accepted most of these councils, non-trinitarian faiths which developed latter (of which jehovah's witnesses are apart) did not.

no-zombie

From the earliest of times of the Catholic church's Ecumenical councils were used to make major changes to its doctrinal direction. Decisions were made by Bishops, they were ratified by the Pope ... and it was done. And the laity had to accepted them or not.

And while splinter Catholic religions accepted most of these councils, non-trinitarian faiths which developed latter (of which Jehovah's Witnesses are apart) did not. Because, as to quote Wikipedia, 'They viewed the ecumenical councils ... as attempts to define dogmas (or doctrine) by debate rather than by revelation'.

This is all well and good, and I understant the scriptural argument.

However our Governing Body does not actually believe in the direct revelations from Christ Jesus or God's Holy Spirit. As mentioned many times by their public statements, that the Governing Body is 'neither inspired or infallible'.

So then, how does the Governing Body receive spiritual enlightenment, other than from simply reading the Bible, which any Christian can do?

85

Disaster preparedness

by ElderBerry in

as your family considers its disaster preparedness plan, please ensure that the secretary has up-to-date contact information for you and your emergency contact.

also, we have re- peatedly seen good results when brothers and sisters are prepared with go bags and are ready to obey direction when they face various kinds of disasters.

please be sure you have a go bag, and review its contents at least once a year.

no-zombie

Longhairgal:

Let's run a scenario for fun (and for Mikejw).

It's now 2027 and Russia is very slowly being pushed out of Ukraine. The Kerch Bridge is now gone and Russia has lost nearly a million soldiers. Putin has become so pissed with Britain over its Storm Shadow missiles and its continuations military aid to Zelensky, that he decides to teach England a lesson, they'll never forget.

So from a Soviet submarine in the southern edge of the North Sea, a single cruise missile is launched at lunch time. Because it is sub-sonic, low and doesn't have a heat plume, it doesn't alert the United Kingdom's nuclear defense shield. But half an hour later a 20kt nuclear detonation vaporizes the city of Chelmsford. And while most of the fall-out ends up in the Channel, everyone in London sees and feels the explosion.

So tell me Mikejw, what's going to happen. I'll tell you. Even if that attack does not escalate, the whole English economy is totally fucked for 5 years. Mass unemployment, mass internal migration and at least 5 million direct refugees. And we are not even counting the hundred thousand sick and injured from the initial blast, who have crashed the English medical system.

And you are trying to tell me that the Brotherhood is going to magically pick up the slack, when most will not even have jobs themselves, that somehow a JW disaster relief committee is going to start setting up MASH camps for irradiated Witnesses. Or that donations from the world wide work, is going to flow in. Do you really understand how many billions of dollars it would take to permanently rehouse even 5,000 witness families? Do you actually know what the main therapy for acute radiation exposure is? Look it up.

I don't think that many witnesses have a clue.

85

Disaster preparedness

by ElderBerry in

as your family considers its disaster preparedness plan, please ensure that the secretary has up-to-date contact information for you and your emergency contact.

also, we have re- peatedly seen good results when brothers and sisters are prepared with go bags and are ready to obey direction when they face various kinds of disasters.

please be sure you have a go bag, and review its contents at least once a year.

no-zombie

So Mikejw, if housing Witness refugees become the new measure of spirituality, how long will yours last when you have to house, cloth and feed an extra 20 people at your home? 1 month, 2 months, 3 month, 6 months, 12 months? Because you know that its going to take more than 12 months for people to return home after a nuclear, biological or wide scale chemical attack.

I just wish people would use their brain, and stop thinking that there is always going to be someone to bail them out of trouble.

14

Video: Governing Body's Ridiculous Viewpoint of Higher Education

by Golden4Altar in

jw
friends

governing body's ridiculous viewpoint of higher education.

to see this video, please click this link: https://jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=186#p186.

g4a.

no-zombie

I wish people would stop thinking that America is the center of the world ... and that just because something is happening the US, it must be happening everywhere else.

No its not.

Its only in America where you can get a Degree in Klingon, Harry Potter or Miley Cyrus.

14

Video: Governing Body's Ridiculous Viewpoint of Higher Education

by Golden4Altar in

jw
friends

governing body's ridiculous viewpoint of higher education.

to see this video, please click this link: https://jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=186#p186.

g4a.

no-zombie

What I've seen in my life is, to Witnesses, to study the bible or a particular doctrine means to review or reread, previously written Watchtower publications.

However for a person at University, to study means to research, using multiple independent and quality peer-reviewed sources, and then be able to boil that information down so that it can be accurately applied to a particular problem ... or perhaps find something actually new.

As a result, higher education is very good producing people who can genuinely profess knowledge in a certain field.

85

Disaster preparedness

by ElderBerry in

as your family considers its disaster preparedness plan, please ensure that the secretary has up-to-date contact information for you and your emergency contact.

also, we have re- peatedly seen good results when brothers and sisters are prepared with go bags and are ready to obey direction when they face various kinds of disasters.

please be sure you have a go bag, and review its contents at least once a year.

no-zombie

MIKEJW:

With respect, I think that you have been watching too many Watchtower 'Watching the News' videos. Yes, it is not hard to get a few people in to a country to have a look or to patch a few roofs, but it a completely different matter to set up a refugee camp to care for 10,000 people and provide them with food and water for months on end.

What the Society is good at however, is passing their problems onto the UNHCR, Red Cross, Oxfam and other NGOs or getting the Brotherhood to just care for Witness refugees personally, while claiming they themselves are some kind of international relief agency.

Because sadly Mike, I don't think that you understand how the Society really runs. You see the Governing Body has compartmentalized each country into individual business units, so that when one goes bust for whatever reason, the contagion doesn't spread outwards. That is why we see money only flow into Warwick and not out. Which means you are not going to see Witness aircraft flying into countries like the West Berlin airlift of 1948, if your part of the world goes under. Why in my city alone, there is 20,000 witnesses. Do you really believe that our disaster relief committee is going to be able fuel all our vehicles, for us to relocate in an emergency?

In Australia, we say ... "you're dreaming, Mate"

So believe me when I say, if something really bad happens, you'll be more alone that you can ever imagine.

85

Disaster preparedness

by ElderBerry in

as your family considers its disaster preparedness plan, please ensure that the secretary has up-to-date contact information for you and your emergency contact.

also, we have re- peatedly seen good results when brothers and sisters are prepared with go bags and are ready to obey direction when they face various kinds of disasters.

please be sure you have a go bag, and review its contents at least once a year.

no-zombie

To Mikejw

While I agree with you in principle, regarding being part of a group in survival situations, I understand that the devil is always in the detail.

Referring a previous post I made, if the disaster you are fleeing from is basically a large local event (say to the level of cyclone Katrina), then pulling out your Witness card may provide some benefits. However if the problem is a national or international one, where relief aid will take a very long time to arrive in sufficient quantities (like what happened to Haiti), then its not going to help anyone being part of a congregation.

In fact I firmly believe, that it will most likely reduce the odds of you and your family surviving.

This is because, as water, food and shelter becomes harder to get, people in your group must all be able to value-add to the whole or at the very least, be able to replace the resources they personally consume. So while it might seem like a nice idea to bring along Brother and Sister Oldtimer with you in your car group, you have to ask ... what will they contribute. I know that its cruel I know to think like this, but for every extra person you take along, the more it will drain your personal strength to provide for your own. Or ultimately you might find yourself crushed by the fact that you don't have enough to go around and be forced to decide who gets how much.

In any case, the reality is that many, many older people are kept alive artificially today by a medical system that will not be able help Diabetics, people with a respiratory or cardiovascular disease or cancer during a wide scale disaster. And, these people will most likely die even with all your efforts and best intentions. And we haven't begun to consider the logistics of those who are chronically overweight or wheelchair bound. Interestingly even the writer of the 1939 book 'Grapes of Wrath' recognized that the very the evacuation itself, could be too much for the elderly to physically endure, anyway.

And don't get me started on how stupid it is to depend on refugee camps, where theft, rape and murder are historically common place.

No, survivalism is not a game that plays fair when things get really bad. And its not going to be very funny, when you have to start burying your friends (or god forbid, family) in roadside graves because of Typhus or Cholera, which has happened more often than you think, when people drink stale water out of desperation.

Finally, from my own experience dealing with various Elders, I'm sure most are not able to improvise in dynamic situations, as their 'training' centers around getting instructions from others, which costs time and depends on a country's infrastructure working reasonably well.

Thus if I have to evacuate, my plan is to bug out with one or two well chosen small family groups, people with a similar basic mindset as me, who already have enough to care for their own immediate needs ... but can add something to the collective. However if they are not ready when its time to go, then I'm leaving without them.

To Dagney

Yeh, Dagney ... when the SHTF those 4 to 5 brothers who bought an RV together will turn easily into 16 to 20 people when they bring their families along. And then you'll see some fun and games, when they realize that there is not enough room for everyone. Lets hope no-one brings a gun.