Posts by no-zombie

9

What is you 'red line'?

by no-zombie in

today we hear a lot about red lines in political commentaries these days.

but for those of us who are pimos, what be your red line?

what would be the doctrinal change or event that would tip you over the edge into leaving for good, regardless of the repercussions?

Today we hear a lot about red lines in political commentaries these days. But for those of us who are PIMOs, what be your red line? What would be the doctrinal change or event that would tip you over the edge into leaving for good, regardless of the repercussions? When I thought about it, I had three ... issues that even my uber JW family could not dismiss offhandedly.

1. Changing the blood position into a conscience matter

While I already believe that take a blood transfusion should be a conscience matter, the clear and open injustice of it ... all those poor bastards that died for nothing but obeying the commands of men ... would be too hard from me too ignore.

2. Introducing personal Tithing

The issue of tithing would be the final proof that the Organization is not a Christian religion at all, but a Jewish one with a soft Christian feel good covering and I couldn't remain a part of it. Plus it would show the lack of God's financial blessing by forcing people to contribute.

3. A Nuclear War

Nuclear War is a lot more survivable than most people think. Devastating, yes ... but quite survivable if your city is not directly targeted. But even a regional attack would indiscriminately kill of thousand or tens of thousands of Witnesses showing that God does not care or protect his so-called people at all. And sadly in this day and age, limited nuclear war is considered by more and more militaries as highly probable and strategically winnable.

What would be your?

114

the watchtower is starting to crumble

by pepperheart in

for the december monthly broadcast instead of jws from around the world waving to you and items of how to shun people we will have to make do with repeats of of old gilead videos that have been on the jw website for a good while.

no-zombie

I think last month's broadcast video was extremely telling of how things will go for the Organization.

Despite the extreme legal and financial pressure that the society is getting over its child abuse problems, the Governing Body has taken the steadfast stand not to abandon the two witness rule, claiming the so-called biblical high ground as their backing. This should be the strongest indication to us that any wholesale religious reform of this faith will not occur and this is due ultimately to the fact the Governing Body still believe that they are literally God's hand and mouthpiece, despite evidence to the contrary.

As a result, this defiant stance will only result in the WBTS hitting a wall rather suddenly one day, because the Governing Body members have chosen to wait for a miraculous deliverance of their problems, rather that doing the logical thing of easing the burdens they themselves have created.

24

March 2018 Study Watchtower

by Listener in

the first study article is about getting bible studies and children baptized.

there is much more emphasis placed on parents to get their own children baptized rather than focusing on bible students.

they try to impress on others the need for urgency.

no-zombie

While I haven't read the article, its funny how witnesses can see that its ok for children as young a 8 (and now possibly even lower) getting baptized, when the son of God; Jesus at 12 (who's outstanding spiritual and biblical understanding made the priests in the temple listen in awe) still remained in subjection to his parents and waited until he was 30 (the age of a man by jewish custom) to be baptized by John.

no-zombie

16

Gradualism for the blood doctrine?

by no-zombie in

here in australia, during the service meeting this week, the local needs part was taken up to quickly discuss a letter from the organization stating that there will no longer be a annual meeting part to discuss or remind the congregations about their blood cards.. i found this quite odd.. its not like that there is a shortage of meeting time to discuss this issue, as the society has recently been hijacking more and more local needs parts for its own messages.

and for a supposedly important doctrine, you would think that it should be mentioned more often rather than less, to keep everyone in line.. could this be a beginning of the movement away from the blood doctrine, through the process of gradualism?.

no-zombie .

no-zombie

Here in Australia, during the Service Meeting this week, the local needs part was taken up to quickly discuss a letter from the Organization stating that there will no longer be a annual meeting part to discuss or remind the congregations about their blood cards.

I found this quite odd.

Its not like that there is a shortage of meeting time to discuss this issue, as the Society has recently been hijacking more and more Local Needs parts for its own messages. And for a supposedly important doctrine, you would think that it should be mentioned more often rather than less, to keep everyone in line.

Could this be a beginning of the movement away from the blood doctrine, through the process of gradualism?

no-zombie

26

January 2018 Message of Judgment - What Is This?

by dubstepped in

jw
friends

i've now seen a couple of references to this and did a little digging before leaving for work.

i saw someone on reddit in july saying that someone on the inside said a change was coming in 2018 with the jw message, and i've now seen two references to this in the past week.

help a former brother out.

no-zombie

With the apathy of the from what I see here in Australia, there is no way that the general Brotherhood will start witnesses anything more unpopular or crazy. Of course some of Brothers and Sisters will get all excited for a while (as many are now enjoying the meetings' emotional highs thanks to the cheap tear jerking videos) but If the GB wants to ruin the country's field service totals ... just change the message and you'll see. The days of 'foot in the door' witnesses are long gone.

no zombie

35

In what decade was it clearly apparent that Watchtower was a high control religion?

by UnshackleTheChains in

i'm just curious to get people's views on this.. the bible students seem to start of as quite a liberal group under charles taze russell, albeit he had some whacky teachings going on.

obviously things began to change under rutherford.

but what decade did it become abundantly clear that the society was indeed high control religion or even labeled a cult?.

no-zombie

At the congregational level, I definitely felt a change in the early 80s. At the time I (like so many) didn't know what was going on in Brooklyn with Ray Franz and the great apostate purges, but none the less you saw something on the ground during that time.

Previously, there was a lot more freedom for elders to shape or make public talks as they liked. For those old enough to remember, many even made their own on-stage dramas which often involved many in the congregation. Other elders genuinely tried to help the spiritually fatherless youths and others formed Watchtower pre-study groups and the like, to encourage the congregation's kids to have a share and be apart of what was going on.

On the social side, elders arranged congregational picnics, particularly to compensate the younger ones loosing out on public or religious festivities. Or take a couple of them under their wing and let then share in their own family's entertainment.

Yes it was all a bit amateurish, but there was a real spirit caring and community.

But the 80s finished all that completely. Elder arranged congregational outings were immediately banned, even smaller parties organized by the youths themselves was criticized from the platform as being dangerous. Instead of it being a case of us vs. the world, it became a inward focused religion, always on the watch for other witnesses who may be 'bad association'.

And we ended up with in the end with a cold, script read, cookie cutter faith that only made the world look more fun ... thus begun the exodus of the young.

no-zombie

11

You are a Jehovah’s Witness or you are nothing at all…

by silentbuddha in

this morning i got a call from a friend of mine who i was actually roommates with at bethel in the 1990’s.

he left that organization about 3 years ago.

he was crushed because it was the 10 year anniversary (for lack of a better term) of the day that his brother took his life after being disfellowshipped many moons ago and not being reinstated.

no-zombie

All these points are sad but true.

Yet another factor I believe is in the mix, at least for those who have converted into the faith. And that is, many of these ones have become a Witness because they are unable to make sense of the world around them. Perhaps they are grieving due to the loss of a loved one and are unable to move on. Maybe they have been involved in some natural disaster, lost everything and cant reconcile that event with their views on a loving God. What ever their life story, the 'Truth' provided them with a frame of reference that has helped them make understand the world and where they fit it to it. Unfortunately its fake. And when the reality comes crashing down on them for whatever reason (be it through fellowshiping or some other form a awakening) they are unable to mentally cope and they are in a worse situation, then when they started.

This is because the Organization is great for one thing; destroying peoples confidence in all the other world's religions. But when it becomes clear that even it is just another man made religion, they have nothing to latch onto ... and are left drowning in the sea of reality.

no-zombie

38

October 31, 2017 TO SELECTED BOEs IN THE US BRANCH TERRITORY Re: Discontinuation of the Funds-on-Deposit Arrangement

by wifibandit in

october 31, 2017 to selected bodies of elders in the united states branch territory re: discontinuation of the funds-on-deposit arrangement.

no-zombie

Correct me if i'm mistaken, but are what is being spoken of here, is money that congregations placed in the Society's care, while the congregation continues saving to build a new hall? That's the impression that I've got. If that is right, it should be encouraging to us here on this forum because it shows how despite they must be. But also, just like when they stripped the local congregation's of 'excessive funds', it a one time deal. Like selling your furniture to pay for the bills. Soon enough there will be nothing more to sell to ward off the debt collectors and you end up on the street.

12

Ireland: A Failure To Bear Witness?

by darkspilver in

feature article in today's print edition (sunday, october 29, 2017) of the irish sunday business post newspaper along with small article on the front page.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_sunday_business_post.

jehovah’s witnesses in spotlight over their response to abuse cases.

the sunday business post, sunday, october 29, 2017 - front page of print edition.

no-zombie

Is anyone able to provide a set of hi-res scans of the actual "A Failure To Bear Witness" article?

28

252 Congregations have closed in Germany since 2015

by LevelThePlayingField in

this is a video from down with the tower.

it's excellent.

enjoy.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0lvvy2qurm.

no-zombie

Well I suppose that the question about those numbers, really revolves around the Society's definition of the word 'congregation'. If it now includes foreign language groups within that number, that would explain the discrepancy. And of course, call into question the number of real congregations in any country. Dropping the threshold of what makes a congregation is not without precedent, if we remember how the Organization fiddled with the term 'Publisher' for the sake of older ones who could barely go witnessing, as with the term 'Pioneer'.

No Zombie