After the realization that the "new system" hope was nothing more than a fantasy, shear logic dictates the eventuality of another world war ... just 3 follows 1 & 2. Unfortunately, I fear that the drums of war have already started to beat.
no-zombie
JoinedPosts by no-zombie
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21
Why the Catholic Church outlast Jehovah's Witnesses
by no-zombie inmany of us who are old timers in "truth", will clearly remember how we and the organization gloated when christendom began selling off their churches, as we saw many ending up becoming cafe's and art galleries.
i personally remember being told (both in general conversation and in print) that the fall of their congregant numbers meant that most churches were ultimately attended by the elderly and it was clearly linked to the "drying up of her waters" in reference to the fall of babylon and babylon the great..
how ironic, that this very situation has now befallen the society and our local kingdom halls..
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no-zombie
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21
Why the Catholic Church outlast Jehovah's Witnesses
by no-zombie inmany of us who are old timers in "truth", will clearly remember how we and the organization gloated when christendom began selling off their churches, as we saw many ending up becoming cafe's and art galleries.
i personally remember being told (both in general conversation and in print) that the fall of their congregant numbers meant that most churches were ultimately attended by the elderly and it was clearly linked to the "drying up of her waters" in reference to the fall of babylon and babylon the great..
how ironic, that this very situation has now befallen the society and our local kingdom halls..
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no-zombie
Many of us who are old timers in "Truth", will clearly remember how we and the Organization gloated when Christendom began selling off their churches, as we saw many ending up becoming cafe's and art galleries. I personally remember being told (both in general conversation and in print) that the fall of their congregant numbers meant that most churches were ultimately attended by the elderly and it was clearly linked to the "drying up of her waters" in reference to the fall of Babylon and Babylon the Great.
How ironic, that this very situation has now befallen the Society and our local Kingdom Halls.
Yet I while firmly believe the Jehovah's Witness faith will ultimately collapse inwardly into obscurity, I also feel that contrary to what we see at the moment, the Catholic Church (and the other major Protestant religions) will likely make a resurgence in popularity just after the next World War.
Why?
Well for two reasons.
Firstly, people's religious faith and the practicing of it (from the larger perspective) is generally influenced by its perceived "need" by the individual. That is to simply say, when people feel at comfort, at ease, when things are looking up, then the psychological imperative to devote time to God is low. But throw them into a world where their surroundings, their livelihoods and their hope to exist for one more day are threatened, then even the most outrageous hedonists, will starts wishing for heaven to exist.
But to take one step back, it’s not hard grasp that the declining popularity of the traditional churches began from the 18th century, as the opportunity to live happy "now" became a possibility for the many, rather than waiting until later, when people got it from some kind of heavenly reward. Thus from the time of the Industrial Revolution (which technically starting a bit before the 18th century), global standards of living rapidly increased from the times of indentured servitude. Resulting of course in the increasing rates of disposable income and public health, which flowed on to lengthening of people's life expectancy.
However, as the traditional churches began to decline, the world saw the rise of non-conforming faiths, the International Bible Students being just one of them. Which poses an interesting question. Did all these minor religions really grow because they were actually better in some theological context, or did people just move congregations because they were tired of what was now viewed irreverent? Interestingly, a few social commentators have suggested that these new faiths grew more from as a form of social protest, than as a genuine issue of spiritually. Which could be true in the case of the Witnesses. For if we are honest, most who have come into the congregation, have done so not primarily due to doctrinal issues but rather they were motive by the supposed Christian "brotherhood" and the “love” displayed to them.
However in times of real hardship (and have in your mind the images of the blitzed out London and Coventry) people do begin to crave stability and the vestiges of it. Thus it is during those times, seeing people attending mass even in roofless and burnout churches was not and will not be unusual again.
This leads to my second point, in that the Catholic Church (and co) have something that the Organization can never have, which is ... history.
Yes the Catholic Church has been around for over sixteen hundred years and the Protestant faiths, for at least five hundred. This fact alone, even now still has an amazing drawing ability. Remember, people might consciously accept that these religions may be nothing more than a mere collection of traditions, yet people still keep going back to it because of the comforting nature of it always being around, in a unstable world. Proof of this was seen in the recent fire at the Notre Dame cathedral, which emotionally effected tens of thousands of lapped Catholics to come out in solidarity to contribute for its repair.
So when the world really falls apart, with millions dead or dying, where will people turn? To the E-religions of today (which in reality will go off line) or the one of few vestiges of normalcy left in people’s collective memory? For the Western world, my money is on the Catholic Church. Because while the remaining Witnesses will be left in some kind of limbo, totally lost without JW Broadcasting, streamed meeting parts and regular magazines, the millions of inactive Catholics and Anglicans will begin reconnecting to church communities to find continuity, as they have done in times past. Thus reinvigorating those faiths.
What do you guys think?
Will the Catholic Church actively out live Jehovah’s Witnesses?
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Reaction to GDPR / field service letter
by sir82 inhere is a thread on the new letter to be read to all congregations in all branches on adjustments in door to door work due to the gdpr:.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6274619758608384/2019-boe-elders-letter-may-13-england-ireland-data-protection.
i have...connections....to a foreign language congregation in europe.
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no-zombie
One of the things that really upsets me about the Organization is that, everything they do for a person comes at price. And this spirit filters down to the attitudes of the rank and file. For example, how many of us have turned up to congregational picnic (now technically banned) and have it turned into mini-meeting with a formal intro and pray ... in which, worldly spouses and siblings may or may not be invited.
Or having a simple morning tea ... only after a mornings field service.
Others have made comment about the so-called disaster relief the Society does. Once again, primarily focused on rebuilding the damaged Kingdom halls and then perhaps a brother's property or two.
So if the Governing Body want the publishers to re-engage with so-called worldly people, they has to get out of the 1920's, 'Praise Jesus before you get your soup' mentality and start teaching the congregations how to be genuinely humanistic toward family and friends, because people can see a con miles away and often quote Admiral Ackbar's catch cry.
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Reaction to GDPR / field service letter
by sir82 inhere is a thread on the new letter to be read to all congregations in all branches on adjustments in door to door work due to the gdpr:.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6274619758608384/2019-boe-elders-letter-may-13-england-ireland-data-protection.
i have...connections....to a foreign language congregation in europe.
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no-zombie
I know that this is slightly off topic but ...
Any real Bible student must acknowledge that Christianity spread primarily during the first and second centuries though, what we would call 'incidental or informal witnessing' to friends and family. However seeing that all the ones coming into the Organization are counseled to abandon all their worldly associates as quickly as possible, trying to reconnect with them only to preach is only seen for what it really is. Thus the Governing Body, in their attempt to develop the 'us and them' mentality, has only precluded the only genuine form of proselytizing ... leaving instead, the formalistic (and hated by most) activity we see in congregations today.
Thus, though the deliberate decisions of the Governing Body, any hope of numerical growth will continue to diminish because they can not grasp the simple fact that people these days are more and more informed and savvy to ways of mass marketing corporations, and that people have now simply re-valued their own privacy.
People will always welcome friends to their doorstep anytime ... but not salesmen with a cookie cutter message, which is something that those in Warwick don't want to understand.
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Why I now believe Jehovah's witnesses are a cult!
by UnshackleTheChains ini always tended to avoid using the word 'cult' to describe jehovah's witnesses.
instead, i preferred referring to them as a 'high control group'.
however, having watched the shocking and bizarre behaviour by so called jehovah's witness elders toward eric wilson (borean pickets), this now confirms beyond any doubt in my mind that the watchtower organisation is nothing more than a cult.. i would seriously encourage everyone to watch the video in it's entirety and see how truly cultlike they are.. my jaw still hitting the floor 😮.
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no-zombie
While this video was interesting, the ex-Elder involved must have realized before hand that no good was going to come of his actions. And it would be a mistake if someone viewing it, to developed a hope that if they do something similar, they might be able to reason with committee members if called, to gain some kind of advantage.
This is because Judaical Committee meetings are not about establishing the guilt of a sin (as the committee Elders must already have enough 'evidence' to convict the accused to initiate such a meeting) but rather its sole role is to determine the person's level repentance.
Any discussion of lawyers, scriptural based self-justifications or using recording devices only goes to reinforce the view that the sinner is not receptive to council and is not demonstrating "a humble spirit before Jehovah".
So if you are called before a Judaical Committee hearing, you only have two choices ... fall on your own sword and say "mea culpa" or face being disfellowshiped.
And of course, deliberately not turning up is not going work out well for you either.
no-zombie (ex-Elder)
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We Need To Get Rid Of Thomas Jefferson Statues and George Washington Too!
by minimus inhofstra students in new york have gotten together to rid the campus of a statue of thomas jefferson because he was a racist slave owner.
i’m sure people hate many of the founding fathers because of their histories.
we need to get rid of any reminder of our sordid past.
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no-zombie
The problem of judging the historical actions of the past is that most people do it while wearing 21st century lenses, instead of considering the contemporary attitudes and values of that particular time period. And while my own pre-civil war knowledge is a bit limited (primarily because I'm not American), as I understand things, Abraham Lincoln didn't take a hard-line on the slavery issue himself until 1864, which was 3 years into the fighting. Meaning of course, that in the mind of Lincoln, slavery was not the prime reason for prosecuting the south. Thus we must conclude, any demonization of Jefferson must be tempered not by our own ideals but through the context of their own century ... or we must similarly blame Lincoln for being soft on the crime here discussed, or worst still judge him as being an opportunist in using slavery as a political tool in support of the north's war machine.
As with all things ... you can't have it both ways.
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How do they decide when to get rid of certain information in their publications?
by Tameria2001 ini was recently watching a video on youtube and on the john cedars channel, he was talking about how the watchtower has discontinued quite a few of their books from back when i was still active.
so it got me to thinking about how do they decide that certain teaching doesn't fit them anymore.
so i was wondering does anyone have any ideas on how they come to that decision because if any of their members bring up something, that person can be disfellowshipped?.
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no-zombie
While I'm of course not privy to the the Governing Body's thinking, I do believe that most of the publications co-authored by Ray Franz were purged after he was disfellowshiped. The Aid book and the Commentary on the book of James comes to mind. But more recently there was a post that showed a change to the cover of one of the Society's youth books, that replaced only one of the kids illustrated. Which leads me to the theory that the Organization likes to "unperson" people they conciser to be an embarrassment.
Of course they have often been forced to revise or delete books, when such publications has made clear prophetic statements that have proved to be false or are just plain crazy. The various editions of the Truth book and the Revelation book are my examples here.
Yet what I find more upsetting, is not the fact that the Governing Body deletes or revises publications but its by their not acknowledging their errors in a truthful manner. Instead of clearly stating their past misunderstandings (through the use or postscripts, references or addendums as found in academic publications), they instead use the expressions like "some Christians understood" to deflect personal examination of their failures.
This revisionistic attitude towards history, only goes to highlight their concern with image rather than truth. A position that similarly displayed in the Governing Body's handling of child abuse in the congregations.
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Can This be Verified?
by Atlantis incan this be verified?
just speculation so far, so i was just wondering.. .
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/bawoeu/getting_rid_of_the_literature_counter_all_together/ .
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no-zombie
Yes, Australia has them too.
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Tony Morris video footage of him buying a dozen bottles of scotch
by UnshackleTheChains ini was howling watching cedars latest video of tm111 buying a dozen bottles of scotch ((maccallans scotch).
you can't write this stuff.
right, i'm now off to buy a bottle of maccallans 😂..
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no-zombie
Yep ... he just looks like some sad old guy, sneaking out to buy some alcohol. But in all seriousness, he and the rest of the Governing Body have made for themselves a prison down at Warwick, a prison where they have to constantly put up this facade of unbridled righteousness 24/7. A place where they can't even be normal every now and then ... and do what we take for granted, like going down to the shops. The price of fame ... they can have it.
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Is White Nationalism A Major Problem In Your Opinion?
by minimus inafter seeing the atrocity in new zealand, do you think white nationalism is a major issue affecting you or where you live?.
somebody already called out chelseaclinton, blaming her for the attack!
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no-zombie
First I'd like to say something about this forum and then I'll make a comment about this topic.
I've noticed over late that while we are very tolerant about towards the various Watchtower posts that get added, some here have become quite caustic towards others when who make unpopular comments on secular subjects. I don't like it. You can't pick and choose your the moral high grounds on free speech. If you think that you do, then you are no better than the Organization we dislike. Respectful free speech, even if we don't agree with its sentiments, is still a right ... especially here. That's it about that from me about this.
Now about White supremacy and racism. Locally in Western Australia, overt racism is not prevalent against our various racial minorities. That is not to say that these feelings do not exist at some level. It is human nature for everyone to reject those who are different and those people who deny this are fooling themselves or at the very least, not thinking about their own feelings deep enough or look a world history.
Humans have always been xenophobic. Humans have always had class structures. It might be ugly. It might get violent ... but its apart of our biological make up. And while this making killing in New Zealand is bad, things like this go on all the time in the world. And while I don't have the time to go into this at length now, I'll just leave with this last comment ... if you think that white supremacy is bad ... research into Han Chinese supremacy and how its being manifested today (think the Uyghurs) for a little more wider perspective on the nature of man,
no zombie