Judging from the infiltration of the Chinese secrete police (and their agents) into Australian politics, academia and business, it would be a very good bet that Chinese congregations and groups are being spied upon, from the inside.
no-zombie
JoinedPosts by no-zombie
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24
KGB infiltrated the Borg
by ExBethelitenowPIMA inwe from the old year books that some kgb undercover agents became elders in high up positions.. i wonder if this is going on today?
not just in russia but other congregations around the world?.
when you think how long it takes to become an elder and all the talks and maybe judicial committees they were involved with.. anyway i’m just throwing it out there if someone wanted to pay me i am a current elder who is pima about intelligence or chance involved with the origin of the universe.. .
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no-zombie
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Undisfellowshipping - ever heard of it happening?
by no-zombie inwhile we are aware of the flip-flopping of doctrinal matters, revisions to how certain sins are handled judicially have also occurred.
additionally, there has been rulings created by the governing body, that has put people into situations where 'sinning' (and their disfellowshiping) was inevitable.
for example in times past, it was issues over if one mate committed acts bestiality or when the parents of hemophiliac children allowed the use of blood fractions on them.
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no-zombie
While we are aware of the flip-flopping of doctrinal matters, revisions to how certain sins are handled judicially have also occurred. Additionally, there has been rulings created by the Governing Body, that has put people into situations where 'sinning' (and their disfellowshiping) was inevitable. For example in times past, it was issues over if one mate committed acts bestiality or when the parents of hemophiliac children allowed the use of blood fractions on them. More recently, changes have surfaced over the terminology and understanding of 'adulterous marriages'.
In either case, disfellowshippings have occurred, that now would have been handled very differently for the person or persons involved. And clearly, these are miscarriages of justice.
Thus the question I have is this ... Has any Elder here ever heard of Publishers getting their disfellowshipping overturned, without going through the whole re-appointment process, based on the grounds of the new view of their past 'sin'?
As an ex-Elder myself, I've never directly seen it happen, but I can vaguely remember hearing one 'funny' thing happening a long while ago, with Branch input.
Undisfellowshipping - ever heard of it happening?
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An interesting book
by joao incan anyone tell me the reason why jw.org has never mentioned this book: the obedience of a christian man, by william tyndale?
i mean, they talk and write articles about his translation of the bible, about him being against the pope, etc.
so, why didn't i ever read or hear about this interesting book?.
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no-zombie
While I haven't researched my thought thoroughly, I believe that most church schisms historically develop due to the general realization of its overreach into the lives of its followers, either through excessive control through theological obedience or by a taxation of some kind. Sadly new break-away faiths, typically follow the same path as their parents and ultimately become as demanding as it predecessors. Just as Russel said ... "Religion is a snare and a racket"
(ed. note here that Russel was trying to disgusting the difference between Religion and Faith)
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An interesting book
by joao incan anyone tell me the reason why jw.org has never mentioned this book: the obedience of a christian man, by william tyndale?
i mean, they talk and write articles about his translation of the bible, about him being against the pope, etc.
so, why didn't i ever read or hear about this interesting book?.
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no-zombie
The GB has two problems with Tyndale. But by extension these problems (when you think about it) also extends to all the literally hundreds of Bible translators and copyists of times long past. And this is ... as correctly mentioned by NBD, the contradiction exists between the Watchtower praising him for his efforts in translating the Bible into English on one hand, and ... his personal view of doing so to allow the common man to read and more importantly to understand it's words for himself.
This obviously is a issue for the Governing Body, will resist any lessening of their authority over their respective peoples. Which in some ways is understandable.
However for Witnesses a secondary problem arises. Tyndale and the many others were not members of the true Church. Conversely, if it was deemed that they were apart of the 144000 ... their other writings and action would have more weight or at least give the Writing Committee, more to explain away.
Thus it is more convenient, to put these ones in a kind of theological limbo, because direct and full acceptance of these fine Christians and their works, might reduce the GBs claim that the Catholic Church is part of the Anti-Christ and also weaken their 'us vs them' ideology.
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a pet peeve of mine
by enoughisenough inputting this under "friends" because i couldn't figure out where to put it.
it is very often on here and in ex jw videos, ect that people like to undermine some of those who once we would have called friends.
there seems to be a view that window washers, plumbers, cleaners, construction workers are somehow less intelligent than those who may be college educated.
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no-zombie
I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but instead of my prepared a longer rebuttal, I'll say this ...
Everyone who rips into people with university Degrees, clearly don't have one themselves.
OR
They live in the US, where your profit driven education model make a mockery of every university outside America and their Degree holders, by selling Degree units in Klingon, Harry Potter, Zombies and Vampires. (see University of Ohio State, Wisconsin Madison, Austin Texas and Columbia College)
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would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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no-zombie
Cofty ... while I acknowledged that many religious leaders have decided to accept the evolution theory, it actually only reinforces the fact that the evolution theory is philosophical tool for the masses, the masses of people who find it convenient to minimize their relationship with God.
Just like popular teaching of the plurality of genders (which have their own scientific experts and evidences), the evolution theory need faith to believe in it. Which you and everyone else are free to do so. However for me, I don't care about anyone's opinion. The Pope (and all the others like him) have abandoned Biblical teaching, in favor of trying to win over young people into their churches, which is only brings shame on them for wanting to be populists.
There are many things that confuse me about God and my faith in him, but the tether that keep pulling me back is the creation account and the REAL lack of detail in how the evolution theory works at the cellular level and how it can brake the first and second law of thermodynamics, spontaneously. How RNA and DNA strands can self aggregate vast strings of new fully functional genetic code, while other symbiotic organisms are co-evolving in separate phyla. And if people say 'random chance' ... then clearly they haven't considered the real numerical probability of it occurring.
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196
would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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no-zombie
If I may add my two cents worth ... there is always going to be things unknown and unknowable ... due to the very nature of man. We are finite creatures and very, very small on a galactic scale. To think that it would be possible for humans to understand everything must be the epitome of hubris itself.
This being the case, there has to come a point at a individual and collective level, that assumptions must be made. However has history has shown over and over again, our understanding of the universe is often flawed. And being dogmatic about ideas, just become a new religion, in itself.
Belief in the evolution of all life in the universe, by pure random chance, is a classic example of this kind of assumption making. Why ... because the evolution theory is a philosophical discussion, not a scientific one, no matter how much noise people make to the contrary. Why, the whole driving force of Darwin's On the Origin of Species can be directly traced back to the Enlightenment philosophers of the 1700s and as part of the development of the secular world. Thus saying with 100% confidence that all life on Earth evolved, is a risky assumption, due to the opening premise of the movement, of which this theory has been used to support.
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would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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no-zombie
Well I think of it this way Ex_B ... does worrying about help the situation, even it looks really black? I don't believe so. We could be in that concentration camp together, seeing our bodies waste away from the hard work and no food We could see our friends put into the ovens or mass graves, thinking that (based on all the evidence) this is our end and ... the very next day the American Army liberates us. You just never know. Where there is life; there is hope.
And if there is really no hope ... then there is nothing we can do about it, anyway.
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196
would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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no-zombie
Ex-B ... I am a person that never dwells on what have could have been, I don't know why. Just highly pragmatic I guess. But I do think that there is something more important to understand here.
No one is 100% happy. If you are ... you have a real psychiatric disorder. Millionaires and Billionaires regularly get unhappy ... yes people totally free to do what ever they want, regularly get even suicidal.
But what everyone can be 100% of the time, is being 'content'.
Now I know that I've been lied to about the beliefs I held for years. I even doubt, that there is a resurrection. However I also now know (as a older adult) that I've been lied to about many things. The government that rules me, has lied to me and withholds trues even today. The history of my country and its national hero is mostly made up. My sporting stars take performance enhancing drugs, while claiming total innocence. Even my wife, whom I love, lies to me from time to time.
But I can accept it and understand it.
It doesn't mean that I like knowing the uncomfortable truths, but a adult I have come to realize, that it is all part of the human condition. People are imperfect and so some will even do terrible things to others.
Thus I get back to my original though about being content, and ask a question.
Could you be content being a condemned Jew living back in Auschwitz concentration camp?
Of course you can not be happy, but you could be content even there, even knowing that today could be your last day alive. It a bit zen, I know ... but it is true. And I'd go even further to say that, without contentment you would most likely just give up and die.
So I think in the end ... that it doesnt matter if I know or don't know the truth about the Truth. Because I can be content with my life, regardless of what pill I took from Morpheus. However if I HAD to choose between knowing or not-knowing ... I'd rather know, because its my nature. Sadly many people just can't cope with truth, but I can be ... while being sort of happy ... and that enough for me.
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196
would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?
by ExBethelitenowPIMA ina good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.
were you more happy pimi?
are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.
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no-zombie
When I watched the SILO series, I thought immediately about the Organization. Its actually a good watch for us, in that when you look at it through our lenses. You'll see a lot of similarities.
Two things in particular, stand out for me, that relate to this topic.
Firstly, the people in the silo have ok types of lives. Sure they are ignorant of many fact, but their daily lives are quite normal. They can get married, have a purpose or function and they are not living in a dictatorial regime. Most are quite happy.
Secondly, while there are rules they live under (both knowingly and unknowingly) many actually do benefit them, due to their circumstances.
Now I know, having lived a while and seen quite a bit, most of the ones in my own congregation (including members of my own family) do have better lives being in the congregation, than if they have never came into the 'Truth'. As most of them are too trusting and gullible to go through a worldly life, without being hurt many times.
No mater what people say, it is a fact that the 'Truth' (by that I mean its micro-society) and Bible teachings, are a restraint for selfish conduct and destruct behavior. Thus many families do try to stay together and make things work out. There is no LGBT+ philosophical infiltration to worry about. And traditional values still exist, where our teens have the opportunity to find marriage partners, that haven't been having sex like there is no tomorrow, from the age of fourteen.
On the flip side, we know that a lot of the teachings are pure BS, with many rules and teachings designed to keep the GB in power. But really aren't all the other religions out there, just the same. Think about the Catholic faith and the Pope. What about the Dalai Lama and the Buddhist religion. And of course Joseph Smith and the Mormons. Are any of them are better or worse than being a Jehovah's Witness? For me quite frankly I cant see it.
Yet many of the millions of people who go to those churches and temples, do have happy lives.
Now I'm not here advocating us to close our eyes to the sins of our former faith, however its problems exist in all other religions and in our communities at large.
Thus I like to say In conclusion, that yes ... my life would have been a lot easier if I had stayed ignorant, for sure. But we can't unlearn what we know ... and things are what they are. But I have come to understand that in the end, some people need the security that religion provides. Even if full of contradictions.
And if having a happy life is that real end goal of humans, I do see the value in going to meetings.