I saw part of a lecture from Jordan Peterson, who made very logical argument to say that even the most strongly avowed atheist still operates with Judao-Christian principles. So while it may be true that less people go to church or claim a particular faith, it doesn't mean that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. It just means people do not conscientiously see value in these social structures. Not to worry, its all cyclical.
no-zombie
JoinedPosts by no-zombie
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26
Is the USA gradually moving to a majority of citizens being non-religious
by Reasonfirst inthis is a topic discussed in a current article in the hongkong based asia times*.
find it at: https://asiatimes.com/2023/09/nones-still-no-match-for-us-christian-nationalism/.
the claim is made in the article, that near 30% of americans are non-believers, and that this number is increasing.
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no-zombie
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Looking for quotes
by no-zombie ini've tried but failed to find these quotes.
if anyone knows where they are, that would be great.. #1 reading the wt and awake magazines for a few years, is like getting a uni degree.. #2 don't bother learning old greek or hebrew because its a waste of time, besides we've got it covered.. thanks.
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no-zombie
I've tried but failed to find these quotes. If anyone knows where they are, that would be great.
#1 Reading the WT and Awake magazines for a few years, is like getting a uni degree.
#2 Don't bother learning old Greek or Hebrew because its a waste of time, besides we've got it covered.
thanks
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Are Elders prepared to take the fall for WT/GB misdemeanor's / crime ??
by smiddy3 ini have been thinking about this in relation to the directive given to elders to destroy any incriminating evidence they may have either on their pc`s ,e-mails , private notes in their possession, or notes in their witnessing bags ,etc.
to do with child sexual abuse they may still have in their possession.. isn`t that encouraging the elders to interfere with the justice system ?.
to break the law?.
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no-zombie
In the real world, if you delete or destroy documents relating to a crime, it is a crime. However PIMI Elders are waging Theocratic Warfare and it is through this lens that they justify their actions and obedience to the Organization.
Sadly many will still not understand that when they get convicted as accessory's to the fact, they have in reality just been thrown under the bus by the Governing Body.
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Exes: Would You Rat On A Current JW?
by NotFormer init's an interesting thought.
if you are an ex jw, presumably dfed, and you see a current jw in good standing engaging in behaviour that would concern their elders, would you pass on that information to interested parties?
do accusations from exes and other outsiders carry any weight?
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no-zombie
If I learned something these days, I'd just keep it to my self. Except if it was a serious crime, then I'd go to the police.
But it doesn't matter, as most people confess anyway in the end. Its part of our psychological makeup.
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Fellow exElders: did you ever get to hear of ...
by no-zombie inwhen i was serving as an elder, it because relatively common to hear of wild drunken house parties of witness youths.
i investigated one, it was so bad that the cops turned up and found empty bottles of whiskey on the lawn and smashed out on the road.
but every led went cold, with all the kids clamming up.
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no-zombie
When I was serving as an Elder, it because relatively common to hear of wild drunken house parties of Witness youths. I investigated one, it was so bad that the cops turned up and found empty bottles of whiskey on the lawn and smashed out on the road. But every led went cold, with all the kids clamming up. However one parents say to me (with a smile) that I wasn't going to get very far at all, as most of them were children of other Elders from the greater area, and I was just wasting my time.
He was right, of course ... I did just waste my time.
In another party I learnt that some boys used to bring condoms in their wallets ... and they weren't used for party tricks either.
It used to blow my mind, as the main suspects were never fringe dwellers and were always very presentable at meetings and assemblies. I found it hard to comprehend all of it, as was a sort of mobile phone organized underground sub-culture, were kids from all over the city used to hook up.
Were these things common in your circuit too? Or was it just us?
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Do we blame the Governing Body too much?
by no-zombie ini'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'v for vendetta'.
here in a dystopian state, the main character named v, explains why things have gone so bad ....
those who do not want us to speak.
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no-zombie
I started this thought because I was reading about North Korea.
You see North Korea has only been a totalitarian state for a relatively short period of time, from the 1950s as I understand. This means that there are people still alive in that country who still remember the time when it was quite free. However, despite the DPRKs incredibly repressive nature, its physical control over ever facet of human life, there has been NO acts of rebellion by its people, ever. Which I found rather strange.
Conversely in Ukraine, its people protested against its Russian backed government, kicking them out of power in 2013 in what was later called the Revolution of Dignity, despite the fact that over 100 demonstrating Ukrainians were killed by police snipers.
With this in mind, think about the following for a minute.
Say by some freak of bad luck, every Governing Body member and Helper suddenly died of food poisoning, leaving only one candidate to take over ... Donald J. Trump.
How long would it take before his antics caused a revolution amongst the Brotherhood? Or what if Stalin, Idi Amin and Poll Pot were at the helm at Warwick HQ? Of course the whole religion would collapse overnight because every single Jehovah's Witness would disassociate themselves from the faith. And while this is a hyperbola, the point I'm making is that there is a actually really narrow tolerance, people have for their leaders and there is a definite tipping point when political misconduct causes revolution.
This being the case, when we think back to North Korea, we have to ask why haven't the North Korean's rebelled when the Ukrainians did ... clearly its because their system is tolerable to the collective Korean mindset. Where as the threshold for Ukrainians was a lot, lot lower despite the high cost they had to endure to get change.
So, if we go back of our situation, I believe we (the general Brotherhood) have a Governing Body in it current form, because they are in our collective band of tolerance, as are their teachings. As a direct consequence, SOME responsibly of the actions of the Governing Body must fall on our shoulders, because of our support of them or allowing them to remain a part of our lives. After all we all thought that the Truth was great at some point, and you can only get disfellowshiped, if you've previously agreed to their rules and been baptized as a Jehovah's Witness.
These facts are the basis of the term 'collective responsibility'. And it was due to this clear ethical principle that every individual German was punished (financially, technically and socially) at the end of WW2 because of their 'collective' support of Hitler and the Nazi party, independent what they did during the war.
Yes, there are many victims of the Society (and some have been hurt very badly) however constantly 'playing the victim' and denying ALL responsibility after leaving, isn't psychologically helpful either ... because as any good psychiatrist will tell you, the only power someone has over you, is the power you give to them.
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Do we blame the Governing Body too much?
by no-zombie ini'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'v for vendetta'.
here in a dystopian state, the main character named v, explains why things have gone so bad ....
those who do not want us to speak.
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no-zombie
I'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'V for Vendetta'. Here in a dystopian state, the main character named V, explains why things have gone so bad ...
Those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.
And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.
How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well, certainly, there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. They were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic, you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.
From this and from a loose quote from Winston Churchill who said that "political leaders are just a reflection of their peoples", I would like to propose that while everyone blames the Governing Body for the behavior of the Organization, ultimately does not the real problem lie with Jehovah's Witnesses themselves and their own temperament?
I asked this question, to raise the idea that our bitter criticism of the Governing Body could be tempered perhaps with a look towards those who support them ... the general Brotherhood and their own responsibility in keeping them in power.
Now some may say that I was born into this Faith, cultured or formed by it and I have known nothing else. And that would be true for many of us, me included. However aside from the whole nature-nurture discussion, there does comes a point (and it might only be one single moment of clarity) when all of us see and understand our religion for what it is. Yet most Witnesses allow this epiphany to pass for the reasons mentioned by V. Thus I can only conclude, that most who attend a congregation have made a deal within themselves (either consciously or subconsciously) to accepted the Faithful Slaves' promises and agreed with the personal compromises, because their world views, their behaviors and attitudes, already harmonize with what is coming from the platform.
Why do I say this? Simply because, despite five successive generations of Witnesses never seeing the promised paradise in their lifetime (which has always been the Society's key prophesy); the Faith continues to exist. And if we are brutally honest, by far the greatest majority of those who leave the religion, have done so only after being punished or negatively effected by it in some way and not for purely philosophical reasons.
Thus, is not the Jehovah's Witness faith and the Governing Body just not a reflection of the people who attend its meetings?
I'm beginning to think so ... and as a result, perhaps I should look more at myself than others, to understand why things are the way they are.
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"the other sheep will feed the other sheep"
by enoughisenough ininteresting statement in this video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zchsc1wedns.
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no-zombie
As I've said for years (and I can't understand why others here on this forum don't get it) age demographics is everything. The Organization is dying, not because of the lack of interest from worldly people, donations or the child abuse allegations ... but only because Witnesses can't keep their kids in the truth. The Faith is very, very quickly becoming a old people's retirement village. Of course, the other factors do matter, but without new blood its doomed. You can bank on it.
Its just like when people say China, China, China ... thinking that it will take over the world. China is so screwed, its not funny. With a birth rate of 1.6, China will be economically and politically crushed by its collapsing workforce and an exploding aged tax and social burdens, in 25 years at the latest. This is not wishful thinking, it is predictive fact.
In regards to us, the generation of Witnesses who are now late teens and very early twenties, will see the most radical restructuring of the Organization, that will make all other changes of the past look weak in comparison. Why ... because the the GB will have no choice, when even now our growth rate (the birth rate equivalent) in this years report to be most likely be ZERO. In actual fact, our real growth rate is already -2.42%, when you align us to the global population fertility rate.
Just think about it for a moment ... and then think about the changes that must be made. -
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Deleting Elders Watchtower Style
by Vanderhoven7 inthe only spirit-directed organization on earth never ceases to amaze me.. https://www.youtube.com/live/0u2ohrbdm-c?feature=share.
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no-zombie
Notice how the Elder in question is the one with a poor attitude. Yep ... slouching in his chair, huffing and puffing, angry ... just like how they stereotype worldly people and people with beards, tattoos and beer.
I was that guy, when they told me that I was going to be deleted as an elder, I'd say ... "you know what, thanks."
But in all seriousness, despite the Organization saying that they aren't against higher education, things like these just prove otherwise.
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no-zombie
Sorry guys, don't read too much into this 'levy' as it been going on for years. Yes, it did have its start when the Watchtower and Awake magazine became free to congregational publishers to distribute, but now that the Organization has gone mostly digital (baring the limited runs of the 'public editions') Witnesses feel that its just a operational cost that should be covered.
And realistically ... a request of Publishers for $2.50usd per week, is nothing like asking for a 10% tithe. Why its not even the price of a take-away cup of coffee.