Posts by no-zombie

36

Few JW leader have children

by slimboyfat in

it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

no-zombie

While I can't unfortunately add to you list, slim, it is very telling set of numbers.

To me, it seems rather evident that all the Governing Body members (and past Presidents) were true believers. Well true enough to make for themselves a social contract, where they traded having children for their positions in Bethel.

But fact most were childless, only goes to illustrate why the Organization has a real lack of understanding of problems of child rearing, teenagers in particular. For the constant repetition of 'prayer, bible study, field service and meeting attendance' as the solution to any problem a youth has, is clear proof that none of them have a real clue of the world around them.

Similar too is the Governing Body's strong recommendation of singleness and childlessness (done through to drive for young couples to serve full time), is really done only because they have never experienced the joys of being a parent themselves.

Would the Society look different though, if the Governing Body had normal families and kids? Undoubtedly ... a lot more humanist, I wager. Which is a pity.

Thanks for the original post.

56

Predictions for the next decade?

by jehovaxx in

as it’s nearly the new year my prediction over the next decade or so will see the sense of urgency dwindle.

then some huge huge changes.

for example by 2034 in a decades time, they will have address the 1914 issue and will come out and say we can’t be dogmatic.

no-zombie

As the numbers of disfellowshiped people are way smaller than those who become inactive and fade away, I wager that the faders are still believers (at varying levels of course), which would help explain the various surveys stating the larger JW population numbers. And within that group of course, would the JWLITEers.

However this doesn't really help the Governing Body that much because they really need 'bums on seats'. Yes, as more and more Witness kids move out and the falling birth rate of Western Countries only getting lower, it going to get hard, much harder to finance the Organization. Not until the GB formally embraces JWLITE and rebuilds the social side of congregations, will people start seeing the value in staying or think about returning it.

But will the Governing Body be brave enough to do it? I doubt it at the moment, not until the old guard are gone.

84

Zechariah 12:10 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's a question for those who still support watchtower on this forum.

why did watchtower leave out the word "me" in zech.

zechariah 12:10 reads like this: .

no-zombie

Again I'd like to remind you (aqwsed12345) that this site is not a debating forum. Nor is it a place for people who have never been a Jehovah's Witness to post topics or comments, that inflame others who maybe in some way be recovering.

However if a person does have something theological or encouraging to add, then the appropriate way to do so, would be to approach it academically, by providing your best evidence or reasoning in one post, and then leaving it for the reader to accept it or not.

84

Zechariah 12:10 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's a question for those who still support watchtower on this forum.

why did watchtower leave out the word "me" in zech.

zechariah 12:10 reads like this: .

no-zombie

The problems here aqwsed12345, is people like you try to support their arguments by getting louder and louder and now with ChatGPT, they can scream, in an attempt that by their many words it adds some kind of weight.

But it doesn't.

And when it doesn't work, people like you turn to insults.

You can be much better, than that.

15

5 Shocking Reasons Why Elders Are Leaving The Jehovah’s Witnesses — The Hidden Truth!

by Golden4Altar in

5 shocking reasons why elders are leaving the jehovah’s witnesses — the hidden truth!

(kingdom wisdom).

thousands of jehovah’s witness elders around the world are stepping down… and no one is talking about it.

no-zombie

From my experience as having been an Elder is that there basically two kinds of Elders. While initially all young Servants are happy to receive their appointment as a kind of recommendation of their hard work and spiritual progress, a split develops (due to the person's base personality) where you begin to love the attention of the congregation and the fact your voice has authority, or you become an Elder just happy to work for the Brothers.

The first group very quickly learn how to pass of the more mundane assignments to the second group. The glory seekers are normally happy to do public talks or the Watchtower study but are often absent on work based committees and midweek field service groups.

As a result the glory hunters never step down from the body of Elders. Why? Because life is good for them.

But the story is quite different for Elders who are people focused. Very quickly it dawns on them that work is not equally distributed on the Body, in seeing how often the glory hunters beg off assignments. But they kindly reason, that it has to be done and so they pick up the load.

In time, number of things get on top of the humble Elder. Maybe their kids aren't progressing well. Maybe after juggling work, home life and congregational stuff, their ministry begins to suffer. Either way they start to fall under the eye of the CO and hints begin to be given, to pick up the pace. Or maybe this class of Elders begin to see how Jehovah's justice is not equally applied. Regardless, these are the men the ultimately leave their assignments. Not happily but out of disappointment. Disappointment in themselves and the Organization that they have worked very hard for and received very little real thanks for the sacrifices made.

And this is why older congregations often become quite dysfunctional or cold. Because all the Elders that actually cared, have stepped down or left.

Its just my perspective, but it is quite easy to get jaded as an elder ... and it burns you out in the end.

84

Zechariah 12:10 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's a question for those who still support watchtower on this forum.

why did watchtower leave out the word "me" in zech.

zechariah 12:10 reads like this: .

no-zombie

Slimboyfat,

While a unpopular position here, I'm a unashamed PIMO for a number of reasons, one of which is that I still believe in the very basic teaching of the WTBS but disobedient due to over-controling nature of the Governing Body and their position on child abuse. For many years I had hoped for some kind of reform might take place (perhaps as Ray Franz had hoped for) but as the years have gone by, I feel more disappointed, realizing that it looks unlikely to eventuate. Which is a pity because the faith, could be so much more.

Are they being still being used by God? It a fair question though. Perhaps, would be my honest answer.

But my mind keep on circling back to the position of people who are not Witnesses but out of a clean heart to genuinely sacrifice their lives to serve others spiritually. And ask ... how could that one be abandoned by God?

84

Zechariah 12:10 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's a question for those who still support watchtower on this forum.

why did watchtower leave out the word "me" in zech.

zechariah 12:10 reads like this: .

no-zombie

Thanks Slim ... I'll have a look for them.

Sort of for the record though, the way I've tried to now understand the Bible and Christianity in general (after my disillusionment with the Governing Body matured) is to try to learn how first century Christians worshiped and what they actually believed. In truth, there is not a lot archeological records of the very early Church. However there is enough to imagine that their meetings must have a homely vibe, just as our old congregational book study nights of years long past.

But I believe its really worth the effort to look back at that time, as their a form of worship was clearly approved by God and such digging made it plane to me, that many of the things the the GB expect today, were not issues at all to our early Brothers and Sister at all. It was far simpler and more genuine.

84

Zechariah 12:10 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's a question for those who still support watchtower on this forum.

why did watchtower leave out the word "me" in zech.

zechariah 12:10 reads like this: .

no-zombie

Sea Breeze

While I understand the upholding the Trinity teaching as a tenet of Catholic faith is important to many, the simple and clear truth is that Jews were always monotheists as was Jesus Christ. And the the concept of the Trinity is not found in the pages of the Bible.

And the argument that of 2nd century apocryphal sources (at best) claim this or that, is invalid for two reasons.

The first and strongest, is that the final compilation of the Bible's canonical list, was not completed by Holy Spirit until the 3rd century CE. Meaning the works and ideas of Polycarp, Ignatius and the others you mentioned had plenty of time to be included ... but were NOT. And therefore they must be abandoned, as they can not be taken as 'gospel' truths.

And secondly, just because a contemporary witter to the Apostles offered a different view of Jesus' nature is not evidence in itself that the dissenting view is correct. Its like finding a first century scientific paper claiming diseases spontaneously developed out of fresh air (as many did believe back then), as proof that Christians believed in the evolution theory.

Thus in saying this, you have to knowledge that people have always had differing views back in the past as do people today ... however as the Bible is literally God's inspired word, you and me must default to it, even if it does goes against our own treasured personal believes.

84

Zechariah 12:10 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's a question for those who still support watchtower on this forum.

why did watchtower leave out the word "me" in zech.

zechariah 12:10 reads like this: .

no-zombie

While I consistently been a word-for-word translation guy through most of my life (thus favoring the 1960s NWT), more recently I've come to the centered conclusion around 2 Timothy 2:14 which says ... 'Keep reminding them of these things, charging them before God as a witness, not to fight about words, a thing of no usefulness at all'

Why?

Because even extremely loose translations like the Good New Bible, do contain sufficient truth to obtain a reasonable relationship with the Almighty ... and (as I previously mentioned) the drilling down to understand Hebrew and Greek nouns is fraught with practical uncertainties.

However, just as William Tyndale correctly said that "a plow boy" should be able to understand God's word, I expect that the real author of the Bible would understand that the scriptures would ultimately be translated into other languages by amateur linguists. Just a Jesus' own words was paraphrased by the Apostles at different times in the Gospels.

And while I hate to say it in this context ... maybe in the end, it's the thought that counts.

84

Zechariah 12:10 Corruption in the NWT

by Sea Breeze in

here's a question for those who still support watchtower on this forum.

why did watchtower leave out the word "me" in zech.

zechariah 12:10 reads like this: .

no-zombie

Sea Breeze

Any translation task is difficult to get right, as there are many linguistic, cultural and historic factor at play. Even dating texts is highly debatable. Its actually recognized as an independent study called paleography ... proving that moving the Bible from one language to another is highly complex and often subjective.

A number of respected publications that I own, that have helped me come to this understanding, I've listed below for your consideration, namely ...

Scribes and Scholars: A guide to the Transmission of Greek and Latin Literature by Reynolds and Wilson

Guardians of Letters: Literacy Power and the Transmitters of Early Christian Literature by Haines-Eitzen

The Earliest Christian Artifacts: Manuscripts and Christian Origins by Hurtado

Inside Roman Libraries: Book Collections and Their Management in Antiquity by Houston

Books and Readers in the Early Church: A History of Early Christian Texts by Gamble

Ante-Pacem: Archaeological Evidence of Church Life before Constantine by Snyder

However if you original thought is based up on the whether Zech 12:10 supports the Trinity, my final argument against that view, is based upon the Jewish messianic expectations and identifications. Jews in the first century were expecting a man like King David not God personified. And this view is clearly amplified by all the Christian texts before Constantine, particularly those of the early church up to 200-250CE