fjtoth

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Posts by fjtoth

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  212

  WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .

  28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!

  29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?

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  fjtoth
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  212

  WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .

  28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!

  29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?

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  fjtoth

  Mrs Smith

  He's living in Wayne's World

  Good point. I hadn't thought about that, but it's true. Wayne is having one of his dreams bubbling up with lots of fantasies about the Watchtower Society.

  Frank
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  212

  WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .

  28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!

  29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  fjtoth
• 
  212

  WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .

  28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!

  29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?

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  fjtoth

  Wayne L,
  
  Don't you think you ought to practice what you preach? You haven't answered a whole bunch of questions that have been asked of you in this thread, and yet you make an issue of a question that has already been answered. I've given the answer, but you won't accept it. Don't you think that's a problem in your argumentation?
  
  I worked on the inside at the WT Society. So have others in this forum. We had access to information that most JWs do not have. We know what we're talking about, and all you have is your inability to doubt that the WT Society could ever do anything wrong. The burden of proof is on you. The Society hasn't disputed what we've said in public, so what reason do you have for believing your position is better than the Society's?
  
  You eagerly grasp at straws to defend your erroneous belief that Jesus used the divine name. You have absolutely no dependable evidence for your belief, but you believe it with all your heart because, apparently to you, it just has to be true. Your faith is on a very sandy foundation. You eagerly believe only what men tell you to believe, not what the facts make crystal clear.
  
  As I said before, you don't care, Wayne, even if a multitude of people have died at the hands of the Watchtower Society. You show no concern when one or two have died, and you don't care if millions have died. All you care about is the reputation of an organization invented and developed by sinful men. That organization is bloodguilty before God, and you share in that bloodguilt as long as you defend it.
  
  I feel very strongly that your mind is closed, that you are incapable of accepting what newspapers, reference works and other sources say in criticism of the Society. I have no doubt that you will remain with this position until the day you die. Perhaps Judgment Day will change your mind.

  I'm not going away until people like you go away!

  That being the case, Wayne, you're going to be here a mighty long time, if you live that long. We're here to stay too. And long after you've turned to ashes, there will be multitudes of others who will be here to point out shameful and gross errors such as those promoted by the Watchtower Society.
  
  Frank
• 
  212

  WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .

  28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!

  29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?

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• 

  fjtoth

  Wayne L,

  Thank you for evading important doctrinal points . . .

  What "important doctrinal points" have I evaded? Come on, Wayne, get specific. It's easy to make vague insinuations and leave your readers wondering what in the world you have in mind. So let's see it. Spell it out clearly. What have I evaded? Or is this still your strange way of playing little games with yourself?

  Thank you for . . . centering on my grammar and occasional mistake (which I correct as soon as spotted). Having been a writer for thirty years,

  If you've "been a writer," Wayne, how is it you make so many errors in grammar? Are you fibbing again? Playing games? I'd be ashamed to say I'm a writer if I couldn't do any better at putting sentences together than you seem able to do. How interesting this is becoming. You make the charge that I've been "evading doctrinal points," and in this your most recent entry you haven't made reference to even one "doctrinal" point. In playing your little games, all you seem able to focus on is quibbling, fussing, and crying the blues about things like "grammar," "mistakes," "language," and "changing the subject." Nothing with any depth, just what is to be expected from someone in bondage to the Watchtower Society.
  
  Frank
• 
  212

  WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .

  28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!

  29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?

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• 

  fjtoth

  Wayne L,

  I can do no better at this time than to refer you to the brown NWT page 1564. Ignore for the moment that it's their work and read the reference works of others quoted.

  Again, your bondage to the Watchtower Society is showing. Only two "reference works" are quoted in the article. Jerome, one of those quoted, says absolutely nothing about the tetragrammaton in the Greek Scriptures. The second person quoted, George Howard, presents the controversial theory that the New Testament manuscripts "may" have originally contained the tetragrammaton. But his theory has been universally rejected by the scholarly community as too speculative.

  All we are left with is the guesswork of the Watchtower Society. Since you suggested that I "ignore for the moment that it's their work," your argument has nothing substantive to it, nothing at all, Wayne. Why don't you give up and be honest with yourself. You are fighting a lost cause. You've got your mind made up, and you just can't seem to let facts and reason open up for you another point of view, a view more in line with reality.

  There is evidence that the Tet. extended into the 2nd/3rd century and was removed after that.

  And where did you find this "evidence." Was it in some ancient manuscript? Was it found chiseled on some clay tablet in a cave somewhere? Come on, Wayne. Get humble and acknowledge the truth of the matter. The only "evidence" is in the imagination of persons desperately trying to defend the weak position of the Watchtower Society, persons like yourself.

  This would counter the statement as to why Jesus did not rebuke. Because the divine name WAS used. This is only conjecture for now, but is as possible as the other poster's suggestion.

  Wayne, Jesus did not "rebuke" anyone for failing to use the divine name because he himself did not use it. The name had not been in use for hundreds of years before Jesus began his ministry. If he had begun to use it, he would have stirred up a riot. It would have been offensive to the Jews just as it is offensive among them to use the name in conversation today. Since there is no record in the Greek Scriptures that such a riot occurred, we have to assume that Jesus never "rocked the boat" in that manner. It is only in the dreams of Watchtower defenders that Jesus uttered the divine name in public. The name was not in the Scriptures he read from, and the name was not included in quotations from him that the apostle recorded. What more "evidence" do you want if you are really concerned about the truth of the matter?

  There are also non-Witness writers who claim that at least Matthew used the Tet. in a Hebrew version and possibly all the others did in their Greek. This tends to knock down your exaggerated statement that there is not any proof in the entire world.

  Again, I ask: Where is the evidence? Who are those "non-Witness writers" who support this Watchtower error? Are they truly reputable scholars, or are they common folk engaged in a guessing game? It's amusing that you can call my statements "exaggerated" when all you offer to counteract them is mere guesswork.

  It is not my policy to use Witness literature as proof, but I must at this time. I truly believe that their quotes in this case are accurate because I've seen them elsewhere.

  How could you have seen what does not exist? Don't you think they would have used such quotes in the article on page 1564 if they actually had them?

  In your one post, you said 1000s died from a silly requirement in Africa, 1000s died from their stand on BTs, 100s died from heartbreak.

  So? Where's the contradiction? What's the fuss?

  But anyways, how many is "many"? Did this issue give a figure? Was it the 1000s you mentioned? If not, you're a little shy on proof.

  Again, Wayne, I say you're simply playing games. Whether it was one or one million who died from the Watchtower's errors in teaching, it doesn't seem to matter to you. Loyalty to an organization invented by sinful humans means more to you than obedience to God's commands against murder. That is truly sad and nauseating.

  Frank
• 
  212

  WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .

  28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!

  29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  fjtoth

  Wayne L,
  
  

  About my insistence on saying that the Tetragrammaton (not Jehovah as you mistakenly infered from my previous) was known in Jesus' day and read by all,

  Still playing games, aren't you. Not once in this entire discussion have you used the term "Tetragrammaton" until now. But you have frequently used the name "Jehovah." Still, you say I'm the one who made a mistake. In other words, I'm in error because I can't read your mind. I'm supposed to see "Tetragrammaton" whenever you type "Jehovah," even though you never gave any of us a hint that you had that expectation. Your logic is very interesting, Wayne, to say the least.

  Frank - Are you stark raving mad. You just called me a liar twice in this post and once in a previous. "Either you are lying" and "I say you are lying" sound awfully like you are saying I'm a liar. What planet are you from?

  This is another example of playing games. I said I never used the "term," and that's absolutely true. It's funny, Wayne, how you can pretend to be precise by making an issue between "Tetragrammaton" and "Jehovah," and yet you can't tell the difference between a label ("liar") and an action ("lying"). As I see it, even if this discussion were to go on for weeks to come, we would make no progress at all because of your meaningless fuss over words you don't understand. Your pretense at being intelligent is another reason why I am convinced you are a JW in total bondage to the Watchtower Society.

  Frank
• 
  212

  WTS hasn't corrected mistakes in NWT on John 20:28.....

  by A-Team in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .

  28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!

  29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?

  1. 
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  fjtoth

  Wayne L,
  
  

  you are the kind of person who resorts to calling others liars

  Careful, Wayne. I never used the term "liars." In fact you introduced the term by saying "Then tell me whether the Witnesses or MacGregor are liars!" That may be your kind of language, but it isn't mine. Either you are lying or you are telling the truth about your being a JW. I say you are lying. If you are not a baptized JW, you are a JW one hundred percent at heart. There is no difference. You defend them and their errors as if your life depended upon it. I think it's hypocritical to pretend that you are merely a detached spectator when in fact you are an ardent JW apologist.
  
  Frank

  PS: Apparently you've forgotten that earlier in this thread you called 5go an idiot.
• 
  33

  I am gone till Aug.

  by mouthy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so behave your selves.

  i am shut down tomorrow the 1oth.. dont say thank god!!!!!!!!

  cos if i dont"kick the bucket while moving" i will be back to send misbehaviors to their room..... love ya all even those who dont love me :).

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  fjtoth

  What-A-Coincidence,

  Sorry about the appearance of trying to steal your thunder. My internet service is slow today, and I saw only your message about mice playing while the cat is away. There was no picture. It's just a coincidence, believe it or not, that we chose the same graphic from Google's Image cache, probably because it was the first one in the line-up.

  Frank
• 
  33

  I am gone till Aug.

  by mouthy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so behave your selves.

  i am shut down tomorrow the 1oth.. dont say thank god!!!!!!!!

  cos if i dont"kick the bucket while moving" i will be back to send misbehaviors to their room..... love ya all even those who dont love me :).

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  fjtoth