Posts by fjtoth

10

SCANNED COPY OF THE MEMORIAL INVITATION???

by Mary in

does anyone have a scanned copy of the invitation to the memorial this year?

for some reason, i haven't gotten one yet!

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

Burn,

Where does the Bible say "God" humbled himself to become a man? We can get the Bible to say anything we want if we read into it anything we want to believe.

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

Burn,

In a nutshell, your argument is this: God can be anything YOU want him to be.

YOU are the one saying "God can be in more than one place at one time," whereas he says "Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where then is a house you could build for Me? And where is a place that I may rest?" (Isaiah 66:1) The "highest heaven cannot contain" God, but Trinitarians belittle his reputation by saying he once walked upon the earth as a man. (1 Kings 8:27) I believe you belittle God even further by comparing him to electrons and quantum particles, among the smallest of existing things, whereas the true God is awesome beyond measure.

Ditto to Burn and Deputy Dog. What each of you fail to see is that you claim 3 separate persons are not 3 gods, but only one God. Throughout the Bible, God is a "he," not a "they." He speaks of himself as "I" and "me," never as "us" or "we," despite the nonscholarly twist that a small number of Trinitarians give to a few verses in Genesis. He is shown to have only one face and two arms and two legs (so that we might understand what he is like). The trouble with your portrayal of God is that there is nothing in the Bible that substantiates it.

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

Satanus,

Apparently you didn't catch the irony. The point of the illustration is that Trinitarians don't notice "what they are doing." A person isn't very smart if he sees the 3 members of the Trinity, each in different locations as God, and still claims he believes in only one God and not three. It's the same with the Bible's picture of God and Christ sitting upon separate thrones. Trinitarians apparently don't notice that there are two thrones, one for God and one for Christ. They give the impression that they see only one throne since upon that one throne there are 3 persons. The Son cannot be sitting upon another throne at God's right hand if he is sitting on God's throne with the other two members of the Trinity.

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

Deputy Dog,

What's the point of your question? Are you saying there is a branch of Judaism that worships the Trinity?

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

Burn,

You claim others "do not understand," yet they are speaking in plain English about what they believe.

On the other hand, how can one say "God is Father, God is Son, God is Holy Spirit. All are God." and not believe there are three Gods?

You state that all "are" God. You do not say all "is" God. The implication of "are" is that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each a distinct God, totalling out to 3 Gods. So your own language gives away the fact that there is no sensible way to explain this doctrine in simple English. Your illustration of a triangle within a circle does absolutely nothing to explain the impossible. It is mere gobbledegook to say "The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father." If there is only ONE GOD, and that ONE GOD is the Father, then the Son cannot be that ONE GOD if he is "not the Father."

So what is the basis for 'understanding' it? If it can't possibly be understood, why blame others for not understanding it when it is not possible for you yourself to understand it?

Some admit that the Trinity is a "mystery" that cannot be understood by finite minds. Little wonder there is no attempt in the Scriptures to explain it. So, if it can't be understood, and it can't be fully explained, I wonder why all this great attempt within this thread to do the impossible.

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

Mouthy,

Again you miss the point. Your illustration says "body," "soul," and "spirit" are each a person in themselves. Be honest with yourself. Each is not a complete person. Don't go off on a tangent about Jesus being the Head and we are the body. That has nothing at all to do with your illustration. Or are you saying that persons who don't believe in the Trinity are lacking one or more of these attributes?

There is no way that the Trinity can be explained in logical terms.

And where does this "oh that woman" come from? It seems to me I'm dealing with somebody's persecution complex here. I've never given negative hints to you or anybody about some supposed inferiority or weirdness concerning women. I was happily married to a woman until she died, and I have nothing but respect for women, especially sensible ones. It seems you're taking our disagreement on this topic a bit too personally.

fjtoth

343

I hate the Watchtower but I really still hate the Trinity Jesus is NOT God!

by Witness 007 in

some bibles use the term "worship" when refering to jesus...at times people did fall down and bow to him........this doesn't show he was god!

the greek term; proskeyneo, means to prostrate oneself, to bow down and show honour.

now, this was done for jehovah.....and his representatives....jesus israelite kings and priests....but for the honour of jehovah not as creature worship which even angels would refuse.. also i studied the non-biblical early church gospels which really does show a slow decline over 150 years, into the trinity as the watchtower claims...........although i still hate the watchtower society at least i learnt something that wasn't a lie..

fjtoth

Mouthy,

I find this thread a real laugh. And before it is finished a fight is going to break out for sure ( I am prophetess)

With all due respect, I think you fail to see the true picture here. More than 170 posts have been entered in this thread, and there is very little "fight" to speak of. I think Witness007, Reniaa and a few others deserve more credit than that. They've hung in there regardless of the fact that they've been bombarded by the majority. And the majority have included some mockers, laughers and even twisters of scripture.

An explanation of the Trinity requires all sorts of contortions and juxtapositions, and the average person comes away feeling none of it makes any sense at all. Even your illustration would be laughable if you weren't so serious about it. How can you liken 3 human qualities (body, soul and spirit) to 3 divine persons? The "body" is not a complete person by itself. Neither is the "spirit" of a person. Why don't you also mention "mind," "heart" and "ego"? If there were truth in your reasoning, each of us would be at least 6 persons within ourselves, not just three! To carry your illustration further, if each of those 6 "persons" also contained 6 "persons," each of us would be a multitudinous world of "persons," not merely a trinity! My point is that there is absolutely no way to illustrate the triune god that ancient men invented in both heathendom and the churches. It is foolish and silly to try.

As far as I know, it has been only the churches that have threatened and actually murdered people because they wouldn't accept this silly doctrine. Little wonder, in view of such church documents as the Athanasian Creed which condemns non-trinitarians to eternal damnation! They "shall perish everlastingly" and "cannot be saved," according to the Creed. But where in the Bible are we told our faith and devotion are worthless unless we view God as three instead of as the Holy One?

The Trinity makes no sense at all. Jesus plainly said that he and the Jews had the correct view of the only God who should be worshiped. (John 4:22) The Jews haven't changed their concept of God during all the centuries since then, and God Himself has not changed. (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17) Nowhere does the Bible speak of God as "the Holy Three." (Isaiah 41:14; 49:7) Either Jesus and the Jews were correct about God or Trinitarians are correct. We can't have it both ways.

fjtoth