jaydee,
Rutherford had a deep Missouri drawl that otherwise sounded like noted politicians of his era, especially on radio. An old-timer I knew who had heard Mark Twain said Rutherford spoke with drawn out vowels much like Twain did.
Frank
Posts by fjtoth
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7Rutherford's Children
by jaydee ini wonder , does any of our american ''brothers'' know what accent rutherford had ?.
i hate the way he says chiiiildriiiiin.. have a listen to the records ............ http://www.sendspace.com/file/vlk83j.
and the book if you want it....... http://www.sendspace.com/file/pwsza1.
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The Emphatic Diaglott and John 1:1
by lilyflor ini have a copy of the the diaglott published in 1942 by the wtbts and john 1:1 says: .
greek word for word: "in a beginning was the word, and the word was with the god, and a god was the word.".
english translation: "in the beginning was the logos, and the logos was with god, and the logos was god".
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fjtoth
lilyflor,
So, then, if I understand you correctly, a science textbook may say the earth is round, but we can believe that it's flat if we want to. It all depends upon our "experiences/worldviews," as you put it. And you ask, "How can one argue another person's experience or views?" Of course, we can think that way if we don't care that he's misled. We can also take that attitude if we believe there is no such thing as absolute truth, and that attitude would of course mean that the Bible is worthless to us.Sorry, but I can't approach the Bible the way you seem to suggest. Jesus was not a trinitarian, and I can't be either, not if I want to believe what he believed and taught. He was a Jew, and I believe he would say to trinitarians what he told a Samaritan woman: "You don't know what you're worshiping. We Jews know what we're worshiping, because salvation comes from the Jews." (John 4:22) He didn't tell her that her "worldviews" were just as good as anybody else's, including his own.
There is absolutely no evidence that Abraham, Moses, the prophets or Jesus believed in a Trinity. Since the Bible was completed, what they wrote or said has been discarded for something that you describe as "fascinating." But fascination is merely a human emotion, not necessarily God's truth as he sees it.
Isn't your most recent post a contradiction of your first one in this thread? You asked, "Do you think that this would be proof enough for JWs that the WT has changed the bible?" Why would you want to change the so-called "experiences/worldviews" of JWs if in your opinion we should not "argue another person's experience or views"?
As for verses that you claim "can easily be interpreted as supporting the trinity," again I ask, Which ones? Yes, there are verses that can with difficulty be so interpreted, but there are none that can easily be so interpreted. One has to have a fascinatingly great imagination to read into any Bible verse a doctrine that just isn't there, no matter how one twists and turns it. There is some truth in the quote you cited: "To the believer no evidence is necessary." Sadly, lack of evidence is what trinitarians generally accept for the basis of what they believe.
Frank
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The Emphatic Diaglott and John 1:1
by lilyflor ini have a copy of the the diaglott published in 1942 by the wtbts and john 1:1 says: .
greek word for word: "in a beginning was the word, and the word was with the god, and a god was the word.".
english translation: "in the beginning was the logos, and the logos was with god, and the logos was god".
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fjtoth
lilyflor,
I agree that the Trinity is based upon interpretation. But why do we need interpretation for plain statements? If the Bible says God is only One, why should we interpret that to mean God is not One Person, but Three Persons? If he constantly speaks of himself as "I" and "me", why should we interpret him to mean "we Three" and "us Three"? When Moses spoke to God face-to-face, it was Moses' one face to God's one face, not God's three faces, or was it?
Frank
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The Emphatic Diaglott and John 1:1
by lilyflor ini have a copy of the the diaglott published in 1942 by the wtbts and john 1:1 says: .
greek word for word: "in a beginning was the word, and the word was with the god, and a god was the word.".
english translation: "in the beginning was the logos, and the logos was with god, and the logos was god".
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fjtoth
lilyflor,
The Greek in the left hand column is that of Johann Jakob Griesbach. He compiled it from various manuscripts. The English in the right hand column is based on Griesbach, the Vatican Manuscript 1209 and the renderings of others.
As for "bible verses that do support" the Trinity, I would like to see them. I know of several verses that state God is One, but none that state he is Three. God says he has only one soul just as we do, not three. Additionally, all through the Bible -- thousands of times -- he speaks of himself as "I" and "me". Even trinitarian scholars acknowledge that the "us" in Genesis 1:26 and a very few other places simply means that God was addressing "the members of his heavenly court." (See the footnote on Genesis 1:26 in the New International Version Study Bible.) So, I would like to see just one Bible verse that states clearly that "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods, but only one God."Never do we speak of God as "they" or "them". Instead we call him "he" or "him", and the Bible speaks of him in the very same way -- thousands of times.
It's useless to argue that there are a few places where the Son is called God and the Holy Spirit is called God, when there are instances of where angels, Moses, and the judges of Israel are also called God, mainly because they spoke for God, they spoke in God's name and they spoke by God's authority just as Jesus does.
Frank -
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The Emphatic Diaglott and John 1:1
by lilyflor ini have a copy of the the diaglott published in 1942 by the wtbts and john 1:1 says: .
greek word for word: "in a beginning was the word, and the word was with the god, and a god was the word.".
english translation: "in the beginning was the logos, and the logos was with god, and the logos was god".
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fjtoth
lilyflor,
The Emphatic Diaglott was completed in 1864, when Charles T. Russell was only 12 years old and 15 years before the first issue of The Watchtower appeared. It was translated by Benjamin Wilson, a member of the Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith. The Society bought the translation and in 1902 had it printed by someone else and then in 1927 on its own presses. But the translation is the same as when Wilson produced it.
Frank
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JW Mom killed in house
by Wordly Andre inhttp://www.pe.com/localnews/murrieta/stories/pe_news_local_s_sdead29.4016de2.html
murrieta - a 40-year-old mother of two was killed in her murrieta home monday morning, authorities said.
coroner's officials identified the woman as isabelle jarka.
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fjtoth
THE LATEST:
The San Diego Union-Tribune
Murrieta man faces murder with special circumstances charge in wife's death
3:38 p.m. May 27, 2008
MURRIETA – A Murrieta man suspected of killing his wife to collect more than $1 million in life insurance proceeds was charged Tuesday with murder and a special circumstance allegation that could result in a death sentence or life imprisonment.
Kelle Lee Jarka, 39, is accused of killing his 40-year-old spouse, Isabelle, on April 28 in the bedroom of their home in the 39000 block of Tamarisk Street, said Murrieta police Lt. Dennis Vrooman.
She suffered fatal head injuries, Vrooman said.
Jarka, who is represented by the Public Defender's Office, made his initial court appearance Tuesday but did not enter a plea to one count of murder, with the special circumstance allegation of murder for financial gain.
Riverside County Superior Court Judge Judith Clark agreed to a defense request to postpone the defendant's arraignment until June 4.
Weeks before his wife's death, Jarka had taken out life insurance policies on her totaling more than $1 million, and investigators believe he set up the crime scene to make it look like a burglary gone awry, Vrooman said.
Following a nearly monthlong investigation, Jarka was arrested Thursday by detectives as he sat in Family Court, awaiting a custody hearing to get his children back, the lieutenant said.
According to police, at least one of the couple's children – they have a 12-year-old daughter and a 7-month-old son – had been staying with relatives.
The day Isabelle Jarka died, her husband told police he had gone out early that morning to a store, and upon his return found the side door to the garage forced open and his wife dead upstairs.
Jarka's initial call to emergency dispatch was to report a burglary, and he waited 26 seconds before revealing his wife may have been murdered, Vrooman said.
During the police investigation, Jarka told officers he had gone to pick up baby formula, even though plenty of formula was found in the house, and his other statements were inconsistent with evidence collected at the scene, Vrooman said.
Neighbors said the Jarkas usually kept to themselves, except when Isabelle joined others in the couple's Jehovah's Witnesses congregation to knock on doors in the neighborhood.
Find this article at:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/riverside/20080527-1538-wifemurder.html -
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Relief for nighttime leg cramps
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inokay, i'm closing in on 500 posts, but have almost no 'new topics' to my name.
i don't feel like starting anything profoundly spiritual.
so, i'll share this tip that has worked for my kinfolk.. on both sides of my family, we frequently suffer from nighttime leg craps.
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Relief for nighttime leg cramps
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inokay, i'm closing in on 500 posts, but have almost no 'new topics' to my name.
i don't feel like starting anything profoundly spiritual.
so, i'll share this tip that has worked for my kinfolk.. on both sides of my family, we frequently suffer from nighttime leg craps.
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fjtoth
Sorry, Mouthy, I couldn't resist!
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Relief for nighttime leg cramps
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inokay, i'm closing in on 500 posts, but have almost no 'new topics' to my name.
i don't feel like starting anything profoundly spiritual.
so, i'll share this tip that has worked for my kinfolk.. on both sides of my family, we frequently suffer from nighttime leg craps.
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fjtoth
At a time when I was getting leg cramps practically every night, I was taking large doses of the B vitamins every day. My doctor told me large doses of Vitamin B-12 are unnecessary unless a person is also experiencing restless legs syndrome. He said there are 3 basic causes of leg cramps: (1) too much caffeine, (2) lack of the calcium-magnesium combination, and (3) lack of potassium, which is drained from the body by caffeine.
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JW Mom killed in house
by Wordly Andre inhttp://www.pe.com/localnews/murrieta/stories/pe_news_local_s_sdead29.4016de2.html
murrieta - a 40-year-old mother of two was killed in her murrieta home monday morning, authorities said.
coroner's officials identified the woman as isabelle jarka.
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fjtoth
There is a web page that illustrates a lot of emotion is going into this case. You can read it at NORTH COUNTY TIMES.(http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/05/23/news/californian/murrieta/z107131ec0ab17ffa882574510070013e.txt)Beware! If you are sympathetic to JWs, you might be influenced to believe the husband is innocent. (I say you MIGHT be, not that you WILL be.) If you are inclined neither for nor against JWs, you might be led to feel more confident about the police and their investigation.
Frank
