Posts by Ravyn

46

Mormon "Apostates"

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

yes, the mormons have their ex-sites too.

one difference i note is that the lds church doesn't tell its members to avoid "apostate" sites, as does the w.t.

one church spokesperson stated: "beyond urging members to use wisdom and judgment in their use of the internet or any other medium of communication, we have made no comment on specific web sites.".

Ravyn

my personal definition of a cult is

1 mind control- isolation

2 social control- insulation

3 information control

combined with the us/them paradigm - demonization (of anyone outside of the group), lack of tolerance, exclusivity

the LDS does not fit information control, it fits mind and social control somewhat. It is not as extreme as other groups. however, just because a religion does not hold sola scriptura does not make it a cult. fundamentalists fail to admit that. the only people I see crying 'cult' on LDS are other religions who disappprove of their doctrine. this is in itself a mark of cultism! exclusivity or demonization.

welcome back KGB.

Ravyn

34

Disunity among Apostates.

by refiners fire in

jw
friends

you know, in the year and a half ive been here i have certainly noticed that personal conflict flourishes among the apostate/ ex dub major players (and not so major players.

) consider the irrepairable conflict between our simon and herr steinhaug and his band of norwegian major players.

consider the relatively recent bill bowen war on this board.

Ravyn

I dont pretend to believe in such a thing as unity among any group of humans....however in a mutual goal approach COOPERATION seems like it might work better than not....

Ravyn

46

Mormon "Apostates"

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

yes, the mormons have their ex-sites too.

one difference i note is that the lds church doesn't tell its members to avoid "apostate" sites, as does the w.t.

one church spokesperson stated: "beyond urging members to use wisdom and judgment in their use of the internet or any other medium of communication, we have made no comment on specific web sites.".

Ravyn

ok I was not really going to get into this, but you drew me out.

I like the Mormon preEarthly history and their eschatology and after-life ideas. I like their Temple rituals. I like their open to spiritual experiences approach too. And I was only a few weeks off from getting married in the Temple when we moved and fell in with a bunch who were not what we were used to. A bad bishop basically. But I wrote a letter to one of the apostles and he wrote me back. Try that with JWs. The one hold up I have with any form of christianity is purely cultural. I am not Jewish. I don't want to be Jewish. And I am not into the American pilgrim and westward-ho experience either. I am Celtic, and I swear if Moroni shows some Brit where the Holy Grail is I will be the first to sign up!

Now about the early stuff...the biggest thing that bothers me is that Joseph Smith was told that if he finished the Temple in---oh what is that place? I can't think of it right now--- and only IF, they would continue to be the special people blessed with the privilege of Temple baptisms. Joseph Smith did not finish it. It was not even finished before he was killed. They basically lost the privilege of being the special ones. And when Joseph Smith was killed the next leader should have been by rights his son. that was how it was set up to pass the torch. Brigham young took a group and separated from the others in a coup and when they were out in the middle of nowhere he made himself the next leader.

As far as I am concerned that is the same thing that happened to Russell and Rutherford.

Joseph Smith never called his people Mormons, that came after Brigham Young came into it. The group that remains loyal to Joseph is still around today and are the legal owners of the Missouri Temple. And according to prophecy they do not do Temple baptisms. So in all technicality, the LDS Church should have died with Smith. I can't see this modern church as being any closer to any kind of complete truth as any other religion right now. But I do think they have something. I am not sure what it is, but it is something. I just wish I could FEEL like I belong there.

I really loved it when I was with the LDS church in VIneland NJ. But then in NH it was terrible! It was so bad that the older missionary couple who studied with me called on the phone and were worried we had fallen into an 'apostate' group. At the time I thot it was funny. But it was sad. Because we never got that original feeling back, and I miss it.

Same thing with the Catholic Church I went to after that. It was a little mission and it was great. Now we are back to giant impersonal cliquish museums...

Ravyn

34

I am tired of thinking like a victim....

by Ravyn in

jw
friends

i may have to cut back on my forum reading.

this is getting discouraging.

everyone knows the problem, feels the problem, but very few want to act on the problem.

Ravyn

how about sending information about the pedophiles and such to the MEDIA? Like legit newspapers and government officials? I don't think attacking KHs will do any good--they expect evil wicked apostates to do that--Satan's persecution. That just feeds their delusions. If I was still a JW I would not have been the slightest bit impressed with a stuffed toy on the KH step. I would have thought a bunch of insane apostates did it, and the first elder on the scene would have picked it up and thrown it out, with 99% of the publishers never seeing it. Then a talk on the Service Meeting about not even looking at apostate literature and we are back to the staus quo.

I am not devaluing anyone's efforts. Any effort is good effort. And I am not complaining about the ones on this forum who do DO something. I am talking about the THOUSANDS who dont.

Yesterday I called a newspaper reporter and emailed the FBI. I could not believe on the webpage for Silent Lambs where it is talking about 23,702 cases of child molestation on file at brooklyn that it ended with the sentiment 'if the FBI only knew...' I said WHY THE F DOESNT THE FBI KNOW? So I emailed it to them copied and pasted and referred to the webpage on their email tip hotline. why cant 100 people do that? It would get someone's attention surely!

We are not going to reform the JWs. Attacking KHs will not get more people out---you KNOW how they think about that! we need to get it out there in the 'world's' face until every time a JW knocks on a door they are challenged about the issues! We need to get it in the hands of every local government so when the JWs apply for permits and try to book conventions they are TURNED DOWN!

The more I read on this thread the more discouraged I get. Am I crazy? Am I the only one who sees it this way? Did the outraged Catholics and X Catholics waste their time leaving little altar boy dolls on the Cathedral steps?

ok go ahead flame me. I know-- I am just so cruel and insensitive. yeah well, personally I think I would make a better General than Napoleon did.

Ravyn Hoo-Ya

44

Harry Potter Promoting Occultism??

by Satanus in

jw
friends

is harry potter promoting occultism, in your opinion?

i haven't read any of the books, but i saw the first movie.

i do some stuff that would be laballed occult by the wt, yet i didn't see any of that there.

Ravyn

Asleif---you took the magick word right out of my mouth!

Ravyn--who is a real witch(not wiccan tho) and who thinks Harry Potter portrays it more correctly than 'The Craft' or 'Charmed'!

44

Harry Potter Promoting Occultism??

by Satanus in

jw
friends

is harry potter promoting occultism, in your opinion?

i haven't read any of the books, but i saw the first movie.

i do some stuff that would be laballed occult by the wt, yet i didn't see any of that there.

Ravyn

Re: Harry Potter Promoting Occultism??

I certainly hope so!

Ravyn

46

Mormon "Apostates"

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

yes, the mormons have their ex-sites too.

one difference i note is that the lds church doesn't tell its members to avoid "apostate" sites, as does the w.t.

one church spokesperson stated: "beyond urging members to use wisdom and judgment in their use of the internet or any other medium of communication, we have made no comment on specific web sites.".

Ravyn

I was baptized Mormon after being out of JWs for about 2 yrs, because my new husband had been baptized as a kid and we were having new marriage troubles and went to them for help. I liked them. They were very open-minded. My first question I asked was "what books can't I read?" Their answer was we don't care what you read. In fact one of my favorite quotes was from their Doctrine and Covennants Book where it say to the effect bring all the books from everywhere and make them sacred by accepting what truth they DO offer! Brigham Young(while not my fave Mormon) said that it was the responsibility of every member to go out into the world and find all the truth and gather it together and bring it back in where it belonged.

I would still be with the Mormons if they didn't have this Jesus fixation. I liked all their weirdo stuff. The occult connections was the reason why I was attracted in the first place. And they believe in what is elsewhere called 'channeling', 'communion of saints', and 'personal revelation' so that leaves private practice pretty well open. They may be trying to fit in mainstream--a shame to lose their uniqueness for the popular vote!--but their woo-woo New Age roots will show sooner-or-later and that is what I still find to have some 'truth'.

They know I went back to the Catholic Church after them and that now I am practicing witchcraft. The boys still come over for Kool Aid and forbidden video games on P-Day(personal day--usually Mondays.) In fact they want my husband to write this video game called "Escape from the MTC"(MTC is thier Missionary training Center and it is BRUTAL!) LOL they come up with ideas like finding an exit and then getting chased back by arch angels with flaming swords! We usually exchange gifts at Christmas with the local boys---it is hard for them to be away from family like that when they were so close. I love the missionaries. Good boys. And they are just boys. You find out their stories and it is so far from the JW fundyism crap--I know two missionaries who took a mission to get out of going to jail! LOL(not criminals mind you--just boy stuff and they were given an ultimatum---many times by the sheriff AND the parents.)

Anyway, be open minded. Go ahead and talk to them if they show up. Don't try to rip their hearts out right away. They do have some fresh ideas if you can get them past the surface, and give them a Kool Aid. They are not JWs and they do not have malicious intent or hidden agendas--not like the JWs. the only hidden agenda the Mormons have is to really love everyone. They don't believe that even unbelievers will be unsaved--just not get as good a reward as those who do believe.

Ravyn

34

I am tired of thinking like a victim....

by Ravyn in

jw
friends

i may have to cut back on my forum reading.

this is getting discouraging.

everyone knows the problem, feels the problem, but very few want to act on the problem.

Ravyn

I understand what you are saying Lady Lee, i really do. But on this forum especially there are many vocal people who do not DO anything but complain on this forum when some of that energy could be directed in a way that would do someone some good other than themselves.

I refuse to think the the way to tear down anything is with a drop of water at atime. Yes it happens. after a few million years! I am not at the mercy of fate here. We live ina technologically advanced world and the opportunities to make something happen faster than a drop of water are virtually(punny huh?) endless!

If I wait around for that drop of water to do its job the Watchtower will crumble on its own with failed prophecies and arcane values. Which may happen. But there are so many people who are frustrated and hurting and angry and they just sit on their butts and let it eat them up inside!

I am sure there are some who are doing something like you said. But if it is not making any more difference than nature taking its course---that drop of water again--then why bother? I either need to DO something or leave it all and go on to something else. This hanging back waiting for my Prince to come is what makes me old, unfulfilled, and bitter. It will happen to us all in the end.

Just how I feel about it.

Ravyn

34

I am tired of thinking like a victim....

by Ravyn in

jw
friends

i may have to cut back on my forum reading.

this is getting discouraging.

everyone knows the problem, feels the problem, but very few want to act on the problem.

Ravyn

I may have to cut back on my forum reading. This is getting discouraging. Everyone knows the problem, feels the problem, but very few want to act on the problem. I understand perfectly all the reasons for anonymity and egg-shell walking around JW family and friends still in, but there is a point when you gotta stop and think 'what if we ALL did something at once and no one stood alone in it' wouldn't it make an impact impossible for the rest of the Universe to ignore? Write one letter, make one phone call...ALL ON THE SAME DAY. From all over the world....strength in numbers thing--you know?

Ah well I feel like I am just wasting my breath. I don't have the physical strength to be a leader, yet I have yet to find someone else who can get others motivated enough to break out of the victim mode and make a difference in this life and in this world.

So I will cut back on this forum for a while. I will still be here, but not allowing myself to get so personally involved. But I have to tell everyone, as much as I love you all---I am getting to the '$h!t or get off the pot' level. You want the Borg pulled down brick by brick then friggin grab a brick! But remember, if we all grabbed for a brick at the same time, with the same purpose of mind, it would tumble down like a nuclear bomb hit it.

Ravyn

21

New Heavens and New Earth is 50 years old now. I Found it!

by plmkrzy in

anyone remember the old dark blue book "a new heavens and a new earth"?.

while i was boxing up all my books last night, i found it.

i thought i lost it for good.

Ravyn

it would be interesting to compare the CD with the original to see how much they changed or left out or added to make it acceptable with current ~~bullshit~~

light.

Ravyn