em1913

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Posts by em1913

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  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
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  em1913

  Well, you'll have something to do in the morning then. The UK is awful in January, a library's very pleasant place to be.

  I tend, to be honest, to be skeptical of the kind of scientific papers that get a lot of play in the news, whether I agree with their conclusions or not. Too often you'll see something presented as BOLD NEW REVELATION STARTLING DISCOVERY ANNOUNCED BY PROFS when in reality, if you actually read the paper, it suggests that a certain thing appears to be true due to certain results but further study is warranted. Many scientists in the public eye are guilty of going along with this kind of media coverage because, you know, publish or perish -- but those You Tube clicks are really where it's at. And yes, a great deal of science is bought and paid for -- the tobacco and petroleum industries, in particular, have long had dirty hands in this regard, and I question anything that comes out of a "think tank."
  
• 
  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  You seem to think you're in the position to dictate the terms of the conversation here. You're not.

  I've invited you to do the research, and I've shown you where to do it, and I've given you a nugget to start from. You're free to accept or reject that challenge if you want, but your rejection of that suggestion doesn't obligate me in any way to do the research for you. If you're sincerely interested in the points I've raised, you'll do the reading for yourself and satisfy yourself in your own mind. If not, then that's your choice. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

  Scientific papers don't get "debunked," by the way. They get challenged, they get questioned, they may be refuted or superseded or disproven by subsequent research, but "debunking" is something that only happens in the popular press and on the Internet -- and it usually happens to something that never should have been "bunked" in the first place.

  Congratulations on your graduation -- but remember, every day you live is part of your continuing education.
  
• 
  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  Not at all odd. You're in "uni." You're a student. I've invited you to do your own research on a point. Do it. Research you do yourself will be much more convincing to you than anything some anonymous set of initials on the internet can provide.
  

  But here's a starting point for you: in scientific research, what would you call a scientist whose preferred methodology is the use of data gathered through a process of self-selection? Would you consider it reliable? Or would you weigh self-selection bias in your conclusions? If not, justify your position.
  
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  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  You've got a library card, son. Use it.
  
• 
  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  Read her book, and then we'll talk. You'll see the foundations of B-C's research methodology across various studies laid out in detail. If he's improved his methodologies and been more rigorous with his conclusions since then, good for him. But if you're unwilling to consider the possiblity that he may be, shall we say, overstating the facts or allowing the facts to be overstated on his behalf in order to sell his own book, then you better work on your own academic rigor.
  
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  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  She's published by Harvard University Press, kids. That's what I was referring to. Pretty much top of the academic publishing heap here in the US. (BTW, Barnard is one of the "Seven Sisters," the seven most prestigious women's colleges in the US.) And yes, she does have a background in cognitive neuroscience. You can be a professor of (gad) Women's Studies and still have legitimate scientific credentials in other disciplines. That's how academia works. Her CV is here -- https://barnard.edu/profiles/rebecca-jordan-young

  And the book in question is here: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674063518&content=reviews. I know, I know, Publisher's Weekly is such a man-hating feminist rag.
  

  Dueling academics is such a classic internet-forum game to play.
  
  
• 
  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  As I said, you'll have to read the book for the rest. It's all laid out in detail there. I'll see you Cambridge and raise you Harvard. (And Dr. J-Y would want me to mention her background in cognitive neurosvcience. XD right back atcha, you kids with your LOLS and your ROFLS and what not.)
  
• 
  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  Another thing I find with certain types of men is that they can't tell when a tongue is in a cheek, especially when it's a woman's tongue in a woman's cheek. Funny how it is that so many men think women have no sense of humor. I'm just kind of amused by the discussion, that's all. I wasn't supposed to laugh at the elders at the KH, you know, but I always did.
  

  Jordan-Young questions quite a bit of B-C's methodology, especially his small sample sizes and also the way in which the conclusions he did reach have been taken out of context by the pop-science press and made to seem much more conclusive than they actually are. Some of his results have been, so far, irreproducible, and others have been directly contradicted by the findings of other, larger-scale studies done by researchers in San Francisco and Toronto. That's the gist, but you'll have to read the book for the rest.
  
• 
  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  I recommend Jordan-Young's recent book, "Brain Storm," which is a review of all the current scientific literature on sex-linked brain differences. Very thoroughly documented, and very honest about what's actually been proven and what's merely extrapolation.

  I couldn't particualrly care less about "eradicating gender differences." I'm too busy rebuilding the carburetor on my 1940 Plymouth, and sewing a dress for my oldest's wedding this summer.
  
• 
  194

  Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

  shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

  men should be less masculine.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  em1913

  My aunt was a hell of an anecdote, I'll have you know. She once laid three men flat on the floor during a bar fight, and the cops were scared to go near her until she'd finished her beer. But she also liked to grow dahlias. So there ya go.

  As far as the binary arguments go, I will say this -- many men do tend to have a psychological compulsion to divide just about everything into A and B, black and white, we and they, and they do this in an almost ritual manner, like dividing the peas and the carrots and the meat and the gravy into little sections on the plate before they can eat. I have an autistic nephew that's like this, and autisim is a trait that does seem to be found more in males than femaies. Baron-Cohen researched this specifically.
  

  But I don't find that all men, or even most men are like this. Most men I know are not preoccupied such divisions, or with gender differences -- they just go on living their lives and get along just fine with the women with whom they share the planet. And, I gotta say, they're the men who impress me as *men,* not the preachers of a lost cause, or those who fantasize about a world where The Women Knew Their Place (a world that never really existed.)