Posts by SwedishChef

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

The Circle of The Earth
Jerry D. McDonald
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers..." (Isaiah 40:22). This passage shows very plainly that this Bible writer knew that the earth was round instead of flat which was the general consensus of the time. And until recent times this is what the Godly have understood about this verse. However. in our age of doubt and skepticism, people wishing to destroy the credibility, of the Bible use this verse to show that the Bible writers were ignorant of science and that they thought the earth was flat. With this interpretation, men such as Farrell Till and Adrian Swindler contend that the Bible writers could not have been inspired by God because God would not have made such mistakes.
Farrell Till, in the winter issue of The Skeptical Review (p.4) says
"Even if they could successfully do this (prove that Isaiah's reference to circle was meant literally jam) they would then have to prove that Isaiah meant circle in the sense of a sphere...., the inerrancy advocates would have to prove that the passage referred to a spherical circle rather than a discoid circle. I seriously doubt that they can ever do that, but until they do, they have no argument."
The funny thing about this statement is that it implies that no one has ever made an argument to prove that Isaiah meant a spherical circle. However, in the summer issue of this same publication, this writer, in responding to Adrian Swindler, made the following argument in favor of this contention.
"The final passage was Isaiah 40:22: 'It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth...' The word for circle in this passage is the Hebrew word Khoog, which, when in its masculine form as it is here means 'a circle, a sphere,' (The Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon, p.249, p.5)"
Did Mr. Till overlook this argument? If he wanted an answer to it, why did he not go back one issue of his own publication and see what it said?
What I would like to do is to give Mr. Till the opportunity to respond to this article and answer the argument made on the word Khoog. Let him show that it is not referring to a spherical circle.
In Adrian Swindler's response to this argument, he cut down the King James Version. He quoted Lacantius to show that he believed that Isaiah 40:22 said the earth was flat. He quoted the NAB, the GNB, and Man and the Cosmos to show that this passage said the earth was flat. But he never did deal with the meaning of the word Khoog, which means, "a circle, a sphere" (The Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon, p.249). Let us hope that Mr. Till can do a better job in responding to this than Mr. Swindler did. In any case, he now has the opportunity to respond.

http://www.bible-infonet.org/challenge/Topics/miscellaneous/01_01_02.htm

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Despite my personal interpretations of this verse, I know myself Isiaha 40:22 will not stand up under the attack of its critics. This verse has basically been neutralized in debates and is not worth getting into an argument over.

I think everyone would be in agreement that this has not proved or disproved a thing.

Rem, you seem to think that there is not a shred of evidence to back up the Bible. To think this is just plain ignorance. Like I've said before, there will always be people who say the Bible is wrong, and always be people who say the Bible is right. And both sides will have evidence to back what they believe.

From a scientific view, there is no absolute proof to confirm that the Bible is right. And what I mean by this is, the only time there will be proof is when the last prophecy is fulfilled. And that prophecy is the return of Christ. Proof is what you can see. Believing in something you can't see is called faith.

The Bible has never been proven wrong. There are no contradictions within these pages. This is the strongest evidence on the side of the Bible. Only in your mind have the prophecies concerning Jesus "fallen like a house of cards". You failed to see the truth in Psalms 22: "they have pierced my hands and my feet". You wrote it off as some kind of mistranslation, you twisted the meaning of the verse. You said something along the lines of, "like a lion, they scratch at my hands and feet". Only problem is, that is not what it says. The only reason I can see for denying this passage is, it would mean you would have to admit to yourself that there is something to it.

And I am still trying to figure out what "real research" is according to you. Do you mean I should take a course in archeology, move to Israel, and start digging? Or search through all the archives of Roman and Greek literature to find evidence? Just like me you rely upon what others have found and also upon hearsay. I take it you are not a historian, Hebrew scholar, or archeologist.

But of course, my sources are all dishonest and yours are truthful. Every source which upholds your viewpoint is a good one, and every one which does not is a ridiculous copout.

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html

There is also an interesting and scholarly article about the theory of evolution and its absurdities.
http://christiananswers.net/q-crs/abiogenesis.html

"Cytologists now realize that a living cell contains hundreds of thousands of different complex parts such as various motor proteins that are assembled to produce the most complex machine in the Universe--a machine far more complex than the most complex Cray super computer."

/ (Main page)

http://www.pb.org/science.html (Links to other Creationistic sites)

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Alan F,

Concerning the dream interpretation in Daniel 4, guess what, that was a dream!

The Hebrew word for "sphere" that you say Isaiah should have used, is also used in this instance:

Isaiah 29:3 "And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee."

Now, "dure" is interpreted "round about." Does this mean that the camp would be in the shape of a sphere?

For more info, I suggest you go this site:
http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_03_03_01.html

http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_01_01_01.html

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Gumby,

I am sorry if I have offended you. I assure you that was not my intent.
I am not aware of the doctrines you held, and I am not aware if these doctrines were Biblically sound ones. All you said was you "loved the Lord" and "studied your Bible." JWs spend their entire lives "studying" the Bible and yet completely miss the mark. The same is true of Catholics and any other cult which claims to hold to the Word of God.

In any case, I was simply making an observation about you. Something obviously must have not been right - you were never saved. As I have said before, nothing I say is meant to be arrogant or conceded. I said that for a reason: because I have been accused of it by so many other people on this board.

When you used to assume the title "Christian", were you not ever called arrogant? Did you not ever bear reproach? Did you ever think that you, one day, would be one of those who is accusing?

Those who reject God grow cold to Him and His Word. It is bitter to them. God gives them up to a reprobated mind. (Romans 1:28) Judging by the response you gave to me, I fear that this may have already happened.

But the wonderful message of the Bible is that as long as there is life, there is hope. All who come to the Lord Jesus Christ will not be denied the waters of life. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is the sin of rejecting the Son of God.

Bible doctrine, by its very nature, is offensive to our nature. And if that is what you have a problem with, than there is nothing I can do.

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Admittedly, I am not very familiar with Hazor, but from what I gather, this ancient city was destroyed a long time ago.

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Damascus

The most ancient of Oriental cities; the capital of Syria (Isa. 7:8; 17:3); situated about 133 miles to the north of Jerusalem. Its modern name is Esh-Sham; i.e., "the East."
The situation of this city is said to be the most beautiful of all Western Asia. It is mentioned among the conquests of the Egyptian king Thothmes III. (B.C. 1500), and in the Amarna tablets (B.C. 1400).
It is first mentioned in Scripture in connection with Abraham's victory over the confederate kings under Chedorlaomer (Gen. 14:15). It was the native place of Abraham's steward (15:2). It is not again noticed till the time of David, when "the Syrians of Damascus came to succour Hadadezer" (q.v.), 2 Sam. 8:5; 1 Chr. 18:5. In the reign of Solomon, Rezon became leader of a band who revolted from Hadadezer (1 Kings 11:23), and betaking themselves to Damascus, settled there and made their leader king. There was a long war, with varying success, between the Israelites and Syrians, who at a later period became allies of Israel against Judah (2 Kings 15:37).
The Syrians were at length subdued by the Assyrians, the city of Damascus was taken and destroyed, and the inhabitants carried captive into Assyria (2 Kings 16:7-9; comp. Isa. 7:8). In this, prophecy was fulfilled (Isa. 17:1; Amos 1:4; Jer. 49:24). The kingdom of Syria remained a province of Assyria till the capture of Nineveh by the Medes (B.C. 625), when it fell under the conquerors. After passing through various vicissitudes, Syria was invaded by the Romans (B.C. 64), and Damascus became the seat of the government of the province. In A.D. 37 Aretas, the king of Arabia, became master of Damascus, having driven back Herod Antipas.
This city is memorable as the scene of Saul's conversion (Acts 9:1-25). The street called "Straight," in which Judas lived, in whose house Saul was found by Ananias, is known by the name Sultany, or "Queen's Street." It is the principal street of the city. Paul visited Damascus again on his return from Arabia (Gal. 1:16, 17). Christianity was planted here as a centre (Acts 9:20), from which it spread to the surrounding regions.
In A.D. 634 Damascus was conquered by the growing Mohammedan power. In A.D. 1516 it fell under the dominion of the Turks, its present rulers. It is now the largest city in Asiatic Turkey. Christianity has again found a firm footing within its walls.

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Gumby,
"I guess the person who goes to church for the first time and cries and accepts Jesus who becomes saved.......is a better man than I. Maybe I should just kill myself because no matter how hard I try.....I am not one of the lords. I knocked and knocked and he wouldn't open.....because I am not one of his......................Is this how you see me SC?"
Gumby, I don't know you, and I cannot make any assumptions about you beyond what the Bible tells me. And what the Bible tells me is, that a person who falls away was never saved to begin with.
When I challenged the "salvation" you had back then, you gave me a list of all the works you did. This is further evidence that your heart was in the wrong place. If you had asked me why I am saved, I would say because I am redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of God. Though my sins were as scarlet, they have been washed white as wool. (Isaiah 1:18) Salvation has nothing to do with ones own works, for nothing can be done to attain it: It is through God's infinite mercy and grace alone.
Furthermore, you said you were a dub. Therefore, whether you realize it or not, you have been fed false doctrine. If you would like more information on doctrine, I would be glad to help in any way I can.
"Question....will God actually let the world perhaps come to the brink of destruction with millions dying from hunger, crime, accidents, disease, ..........so he can spare the last one of the elect who isn't born yet? Would God allow millions to die.......to save the one elect?"
You have faced me with a difficult question. All I can say is that the fullness of the Gentiles will come in before the return of Christ, and nothing will thwart this plan. John 6:37a "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me." God is ultimately in control of the world. But just as He allowed the wickedness of Israel run rampant, so He is with the Gentile world. And just as Israel received constant warning, so is the Gentile world. Just as God brought judgment on Israel, so will He do with the Gentile world.

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Gumby,

We are all "bad men" inside. We have all sinned, our righteousness is as filthy rags, our hearts are desperately wicked, as says the Bible. We have all transgressed against an infinite and Holy God. Church can't save an individual. Placing your faith in your own works is vain. You will certainly not go far being a JW, as they are a cult.

The Bible says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." It also says we are saved by the grace of God, and by the works of the law shall no man be justified. God sent His only begotten Son to die for sinners such as you and I. And all who come to Him, trusting in Him alone and not in works, repenting and believing in Jesus Christ, will be saved.

All who come to Him, he will in no wise cast out. The invitation is for all. However, not all will come. "Many are called, but few are chosen", says Jesus. (Matt 22:14)

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Donkey,

When did I ever promise to deliver absolute proof?

Rem,
you said:
"Stop posting threads with ridiculous false claims and you will not be made a fool of. Then you will earn the respect of other posters on this board."
I believe the title of this thread is "How do I know the Bible is True", and does therefore reflect why I believe the Bible. Certainly, believing the Bible is faith issue, the book says so itself!
I am not really out to earn the respect of everyone. If I do so while being a witness of the Gospel, then great! But it is not my goal to compromise my beliefs in order to please a bunch of people I don't know, nor ever will meet. (and I have been called worse than "troll")

106

How do I know the Bible is True?

by SwedishChef in

how do i know the bible is true?

by thomas schaff.

external evidence.

SwedishChef

Gumby,

Thank you for your response. Even though I completely disagree with you belief wise, I can have respect for you because you have done the same toward me (Unlike some of the others who post here.)

"What could he have done? Well he could have kept his promises....that would have helped. he could have "came again" Why is he waiting so long......seriously?"

From what I have read, Jesus has kept all His promises. The second coming with be fulfilled in its due time. Did God not deal with Israel for thousands of years? Why should it be different for the church age? The church is God's new kingdom. The Bible says "the Lord is not slack concerning his promise"(2 Peter 3:9). What He is waiting for is the last of His elect to become saved. For the "fullness of the Gentiles to come in." (Rn 11:25, Lk 21:24) As can be seen from the world today, this is not too far off. We are in the Laodicean age of the church, which is the last one, and we are in the midst of the great falling away of the church. If you've studied the Bible as hard as you say you did you'd know what I'm talking about by this.

I have never said there is absolute proof of the Bible being right. But I can say that the Bible has never been proven wrong, archeological and historical studies have only affirmed its accuracy, and there is a wealth of unsurpassed depth within these pages.

In whatever you research, on any topic, there will always be evidence which says it is true, and there will always be evidence that says it is not true. These two cannot merge. Either the first set of evidence is erroneous, and the second set is true, or vice versa. It is my stance that the Bible is true, and therefore I will accept all evidence that points toward this. It is your stance to do the contrary.

However, the external factors involved is not the basis for a Christian's belief, it is what happens inwardly. Through all my folly, I have always felt drawn to the God of the Bible. Human nature itself is repulsed at the doctrines within these pages, and yet I have found a peace that is beyond myself - for the Author is beyond myself.

Gumby, a true saved Christian will never fall away from salvation. I don't know you, but I can say upon the authority the Bible that you were never saved, and therefore never a true Christian. You were obviously thinking about it, and maybe thought you were. But the seed was snatched out of your heart before it could take effect. Faith is the victory that overcomes the world. And faith is a shield according to Ephesians 6:16. This shield is used to "quench all the fiery darts of the wicked." When out of answers, there is always faith. That's why Paul says "I have fought the good fight...I have kept the faith." Without this shield, without leaning on the everlasting arms of the Savior and saying "Lord, I trust you above all", anyone will fall. And if it were up to my own will I would fall, but it is God who preserves me.

You weren't saved, and therefore when you came under the unrelenting assaults of the atheists, the "fiery darts of the wicked", you fell further into disbelief. Tell me Gumby, are you happier now that you have no foundation? Have you found peace that passes all understanding? What has replaced Jesus Christ in your life?

Sincerely,

Michael

Edited by - SwedishChef on 1 January 2003 1:49:39