Posts by DJS

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

Marvin,

Ditto. They are called bona fide occupational qualifications. Employers can legally require employees to work shifts, weekends, retire at a certain age, etc. and the employee does not typically have a legal right to sue, but the employer must include the BOQs in the job description and they must be 'bonafide' or legitimate essential job duties/requirements. If they are, employers are almost always A-ok, unless they administer these BOQs in an unfair manner (some get favors, some don't). Courts will always look at practices as more compelling than policies or procedures.

In a past life I worked with an HR employee hiring/relations team.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana's Republican legislative leaders have unveiled changes to the state's new religious objections law that has faced criticism it could allow discrimination against lesbians and gays.

The amendment to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act released Thursday prohibits service providers from using the law as a legal defense for refusing to provide services, goods, facilities or accommodations. It also bars discrimination based on race, color, religion, ancestry, age, national origin, disability, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or United States military service.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

JD,

You are speaking for yourself. I understand. You aren't speaking for Libertarians as a group. I understand. Otherwise I don't understand what you mean about forcing people into groups. The laws supporting gay marriage aren't forcing anything on anyone. Those who think they are simply don't want others to have legal rights that they have enjoyed forever.

Laws requiring for profit commercial businesses to serve everyone regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation aren't force. They simply allow access that they themselves have enjoyed forever. The only 'force' is coming from the X-tians, the Libertarians and the Far R, which want to force their own views down everyone's throat. They've lost a lot of court cases recently and they are striking back in mean spirited ways with needless laws that allow X-tians and other haters to continue discriminating and validate their hate.

Within a generation or so this will be a moot point. Gay marriage and equal access will be the norm, and people in the future will look back at the haters in 2015 and compare them to the KKK and other 20th Century hate mongers. And that's not an opinion.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

Rand Paul has gone on record stating that privately owned establishments should be able to decide whom to serve without government interference. This is in lockstep with the Libertarian's darling Ayn Rand, who believed that race issues would be better resolved without government intervention.

Let's see if Mr. Paul starts moon walking as fast as he can backwards if he decides to run a national campaign. My bet is that he will make Brother Michael look like an amateur. He has already started softening some of his more rhetorical and hard-line Libertarian views. Like the X-tian fundies and the Far Right, he plays better at home.

As for Ms. Rand, history has shown how pathetically mean and misinformed she was about this and other topics.

Libertarianism is an ideal. A grand concept. That's all it is. In theory I wish government would go away and leave us all alone. But I live in the real world; I hope that government only does what is necessary. Leading the way in ending discrimination, IMHO, is necessary.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

Yes I think you are a hater; you mask it and hide it behind Libertarianism. In theory I'm a Libertarian; I would love to do what I want whenever I want. I get it. But as nice as all of that sounds, we have one planet, and we are better as a species if we are tolerant of others. I also wish that there were no government controls on anything, but I'm smart enough to know that we can't live in a world like that.

Although it is a nice theory, and I wished we could all practice it, in reality it is immature to think that we can all get along, play nice and build a better world without rules and laws. I hate lawyers and laws and avoid the inside of a courtroom at all costs, just like you, but others who feel discriminated against have the legal and constitutional right to file suit, especially when enough is fukking enough, in order to level playing fields and to gain access and acceptance. Carrying out the Libertarian viewpoint to its obvious conclusion would lead us back to discrimination against blacks, the disabled, women, etc. Just because you think that you would just find another option so everyone else should as well is also an immature, childish behavior.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

I'm amazed at the hatred shown by X-tians. I'm additionally amazed at the hypocrisy shown by X-tians on this site and in general by so often stating that atheists and the secular just aren't as good and moral as you all. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm also amazed that so many of you X-tians, Libertarians and Egoists apparently haven't the faintest clue that it has been constitutionally and legally determined decades ago that it is illegal to discriminate against black people or based on race. Or gender. Or religion. Or disabilities. And now the courts have consistently ruled against the state bans on gay marriage, and the X-tian, R Wing, Libertarians and Egoist haters are trying in vain to support your hatred of gays, just as your fathers and mothers and churches no doubt supported hatred and discrimination of blacks decades ago. It is legal now in 38 states for gays to marry, and the few remaining court cases will likely make it possible in all 50 states soon.

And I'm continually amazed that so many of you X-tians, Libertarians and Egoists continue to think that you have or should have rights that you haven't had since the Constitution was penned and certainly not since the courts determined how it is to be administered and followed. It is childish, arrogant, immature, egotistical to whine about your rights and that you should be able to do this and that with your business or as an individual. I suggest that you re-locate to a country that allows you these freedoms. Or join the white separatists in Idaho, but they probably have rules too. Go. Please. If you could find another planet so much the better, because once your hatred leaves the planet we will be a better species. Y'all a bunch of Skee-los:

I wish I was little bit taller
I wish I was a baller
I wish I had a girl who looked good
I would call her
I wish I had a rabbit in a hat with a bat
And a six four Impala

I wish I was like six-foot-nine
So I can get with Leoshi
'Cause she don't know me but yo she's really fine
You know, I see her all the time
Everywhere I go and even in my dreams
I can scheme a way to make her mine

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

Snug and Richard,

It may be legal to post such a sign but it isn't legal to act on it in a discriminatory manner as considered by the Constitution and the courts. But you all already know that; you are simply whining about your feelings and wishing the world catered to them. And wasting everyone's time.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

""Frankly the lawsuit is unconstitutional. The constitution guarantees Americans the right to live and work in a manor that's consistent with their religious beliefs," said Kristen Waggoner, Stutzman's lawyer."

Ms. Waggoner can't find one case determined by regional or SCOTUS that supports the tripe she stated. Not one. Her comment sounds like something a person unfamiliar with the law would say based on their feelings.

It is childish and immature to wish you could do what you want to do regardless of the reality.

The Courts: You can't discriminate Ms. X-tian based on race or sexual orientation. You must serve these people with your for profit commercial business regardless of your religious beliefs.

Ms. X-tian: But I want to. I should be able to. It's my business. I should be able to run it the way I want to. I want to. It's my business. I should be able to do what I want to.

The Courts: I understand Ms. X-tian. Let me repeat back what I think you are saying. It's difficult to accurately hear you because of the pacifier in your mouth but I think what you are saying is: Wah… Wah…. Wah.

THAT's what this conversation thread is about. The rationals continue to point to ethics, inclusiveness and fair mindedness, not to mention empirical data and the evidence (decades of court opinions in support of the US Constitution). The irrationals continue to whine about their feelings and what they want, not to mention how unethical, unfair and bigoted their behavior is. I have three things to say in response. Wah….. Wah….. Wah.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

That's the problem with theists, well at least one of the problems. So many of you make every life decision and take every stand on every issue based on your feelings. What if the KKK asked me to bake a cake for them? I would ask how big and how many? What if the KH needed my Lights or Lawn Care or to Clean their toilets? I would say include all of these and I will give you a multi-service discount.

I'm just surprised any of you feeler/perceivers had enough damn sense to escape the Dark Lords' clutches. Clam, if the JOP is working for the government, he or she doesn't have the right to refuse marrying gays. As part of any government position there is an understanding that you will uphold the tenets of the US Constitution. They can of course sue to see if the courts will uphold their refusal.

I've tried being a kinder, gentler DJS. It is a challenge at times.

Theists, I am out here for you. You don't know what it's like to be ME out here for YOU. It is an up-at-dawn, pride-swallowing siege that I will never fully tell you about, ok? Help me... help you. Help me, help you.

Help me .. help you.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

DJS

Clambake,

Please provide references or a url. I found this:

CAMBRIDGE, Ontario, September 11, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A Church of Christ minister who has been responsible for civic marriage ceremonies at Cambridge city hall for the past 15 years is facing the axe if she doesn’t agree to perform same-sex “marriages.”

This minister is working for the government, performing civil marriages. Is this what you are referring to? If so, this isn't a church. She is wrong; they are right.