SBF,
Well stated. Thank you.
Posts by DJS
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147Challenge to Creationists
by cofty inin response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.
predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.
entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.
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147
Challenge to Creationists
by cofty inin response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.
predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.
entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.
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DJS
@SlimBoyFat, "If evidence emerged to support creation would you change your mind?"
I'm continually amused and perplexed why theists so often ask this question. Atheists have typically gotten to be atheists because of their rational, analytical analysis of theism. Becoming an atheist to most of us has nothing to do with beliefs, feelings or emotions. It was a decades long journey of a methodical evaluation and analysis of the data. No emotions were involved.
We haven't stopped believing in god because she hurt our feelings.
It is about the evidence, or lack of such for a god or gods.
Of course I would believe if the evidence was clear. If god showed up in Times Square in her leotard and cape with all of the other super heroes and did something cool, let's say get rid of the nukes and stop wars, oppression and injustice of all kinds, I would be the biggest theist around.
All atheists would also believe. Well, they better. Otherwise they would be theists hiding behind an atheist facade. And us atheists know how to deal with them. We shun them and kick them out of our exclusive atheist club.
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42
Feeling Sad After Uncovering TTATT
by pale.emperor inmy initial pangs of unease and doubt led me to research some things.
well, a lot of things really.
i've never felt comfortable using the bible to try to calculate dates (1914).
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DJS
Everyone is different, so trying to evaluate one's responses to waking up to this cult vs. another's is not wise or fair. Having said that, my emotional responses were:
Humor - laughing at myself for thinking I knew the answers for so long
Humility - see above
A sense of well being - Confirmation that there was a reason for the distress and anxiety I had felt for so long while in this nasty cult and trying to do what jesus would do (vomit)
Anger - At myself mostly, and at the Dark Lords secondarily
Elation, Joy, Satisfaction, Euphoria
But no, never sadness.
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8
До свидания! Russia
by sp74bb inour sources in the russian front do confirm it.
service desk of russian branch is being transferred urgently to finland.. до свидания russia :).
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DJS
The Dark Lords have had since 2002, 14 years, to comply. They have clearly known how the Russian courts would interpret the laws for a decade.
Russian authorities have been patient. The Dark Lords arrogance and narcissism are the cause of this.
Let it come.
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4
Great quote!
by stuckinarut2 in"growth is painful.
change is painful.
but nothing is as painful as staying stuck somewhere you don't belong".
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DJS
Thanks Stuck,
Great quote.
Hop on the bus, Gus. Make a new plan, Stan. No need to be coy, Roy. Slip out the back, Jack.
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147
Challenge to Creationists
by cofty inin response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.
predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.
entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.
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DJS
Cofty,
I think they were mistaking you for me. I resemble that remark.
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147
Challenge to Creationists
by cofty inin response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.
predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.
entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.
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DJS
@shepherless: "Actually, the scientific method starts with an observation, not a postulation. Step 2 is coming up with as many hypotheses as possible. Step 3 is the process of elimination hypotheses by testing and further observation, etc.
I mention that, because if you start with one "postulation", then you are vulnerable to carrying out an exercise in confirmation bias, not the scientific method, because (human nature being what it is) you tend to just gather the evidence in support of your postulation, and you ignore the rest."
Thank you and well stated. When I conducted my first research project paper as part of a semester long class in my undergrad, our profs configured the class in the same manner as a PhD dissertation. It was critical to start with a blank slate to avoid bias. The one thing they stressed was to start your research with a question, such as "what are the effects of intelligence on religiosity?"
The possibilities include: no impact, undetermined, a negative impact, or a positive impact. If you start your research under the premise that intelligence has a negative influence on religiosity, for example, then the results may be biased. Once completed and presented for review, the question becomes a statement: "The Effects of Intelligence on Religiosity."
That's what slays me when Perry and others post 'research' from x-tian apologists who started their project with the premise that we live on a young earth or that god created everything. It isn't research; it is confirmation bias of the worst kind, and it will never be viewed seriously by the scientific community.
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147
Challenge to Creationists
by cofty inin response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.
predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.
entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.
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DJS
Being a root cause analysis type person, let’s get to the heart of the matter regarding this OP in general and the responses from Snowbird and a few others in particular. From Google Scholar – all recent studies from experts (with those PhD thing-eys).
1. Intelligence and religiosity: Within families and over time, Tel Aviv Univ: Yoav Ganzach, Chemi Gotlibovski, 2013
The results suggest that intelligence has a strong negative effect on religiosity. In addition, results also suggest that intelligence interacts with age in determining religiosity: the more intelligent the person, the stronger the negative effect of age on religiosity.
2. The relationship between intelligence and multiple domains of religious belief: Evidence from a large adult US sample, Gary J. Lewis, Stuart J. Ritchie, Timothy C. Bates, 2011
A model of the association of religiosity with intelligence openness using a large adult US sample and 6 measures of religious belief and behavior. Lower intelligence was significantly associated with higher levels of faith. Lower intelligence was most strongly associated with increased fundamentalism.
3.The intelligence–religiosity nexus: A representative study of white adolescent Americans, Helmuth Nyborg, 2009
The study examined whether IQ relates systematically to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (NLSY97). Atheists score 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. It is suggested that IQ makes an individual likely to gravitate toward a denomination and level of achievement that best fit his or hers particular level of cognitive complexity. Ontogenetically speaking this means that contemporary denominations are rank ordered by largely hereditary variations in brain efficiency (i.e. IQ). In terms of evolution, modern Atheists are reacting rationally to cognitive and emotional challenges, whereas Liberals and, in particular Dogmatics, still rely on ancient, pre-rational, supernatural and wishful thinking.
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57
RUSSIA: Jehovah's Witnesses face possible liquidation
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2181.
24 may 2016. russia: jehovah's witnesses face possible liquidation.
by victoria arnold, forum 18. if prosecutors proceed with their threat to liquidate the jehovah's witness headquarters near st petersburg, thousands of local congregations across russia could also face prohibition of their activities and individuals could be vulnerable to criminal charges for expressing their beliefs, forum 18 notes.. the jehovah's witnesses' principal body in russia is under threat of dissolution as an "extremist" organisation after the deadline in an official warning from the general prosecutor's office expired on 10 may, forum 18 notes.
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DJS
Fish,
Barb’s links would help you understand this issue if you would read them.
Russia enacted its extremism law in 2002, just months after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the US. Two of the law's provisions defined religious extremism as promoting the "exclusivity, superiority, or lack of equal worth of an individual" and "incitement of religious discord" in connection with acts or threats of violence.
Officials began to interpret the first provision as promoting the superiority of a belief, and in 2007, Russia amended the law to allow prosecution for inciting religious discord even in the absence of any threat or act of violence.
Since every group believes its own dogma to be in some sense superior, any group could face an extremism charge. And since inciting "religious discord" is no longer linked to advocating or perpetrating violence, those advocating religious views face potential criminal charges of incitement. Other religious groups wishing to practice openly in Russia either don’t have these teachings as part of their religious dogma or they have removed them from materials distributed in Russia. In other words, they complied with the law.
In early 2014, a regional court overturned a 2012 ban of the JW website, and in 2015 the Russian Justice Ministry allowed the Jehovah's Witnesses to operate as a legal community in Moscow. So it is clear the Russian judicial system is trying to be fair minded with the dubs. The Dubs continue to place themselves in the cross hairs of Russian laws because they won’t completely remove teachings related to end of time and the complete destruction of all other religions and governments and their own superiority, which Russian law views as extremist and dangerous.
It’s not just the dubs. A court in 2007 banned the Russian translations of 14 Quran commentaries by Turkish theologian Said Nursi due to his asserting Islam's superiority. It is important to note that followers of Islam in Russia have disavowed Nursi’s writings, distanced themselves from ISIS and other Islamic extremists who preach jihad, the forced spread of Islam, end of time armageddons and superiority over other religions. In September 2013, the Novorossiisk District Court banned a translation of the Quran itself and ordered its destruction, a ruling that was overturned three months later.
The Dark Lords can’t be the Dark Lords without preaching and teaching that they alone have god’s spirit and every other religion and government will soon be destroyed. That is why they are in trouble; they do not deserve our sympathy, and the Russian judicial system has shown restraint and patience, systematically trying to get the Dark Lords and others to comply.
Does Vlad protect the Russian Othrodox Church? Of course. Is Russia reverting back to the pre-Cold War days of suppression and oppression? Perhaps a bit, but the Russian courts are acting like courts in other democratic countries; some interpret the laws one way, and other courts interpret the laws in a different way. The process is working so far; the only thing not working is the arrogant self appointed narcissistic ego driven Dark Lords, who will be forced to re-write every publication distributed in Russia and every teaching proselytized in public in order to comply with the law and avoid being dissolved. My money is on Vlad and his Impalers, and unless the Russian law is changed, which is unlikely to occur, the Dark Lords are going to be on the losing side of this in Russia and unlikely to gain sympathy from the EU. X-tian apologists may whine about it, but Russia has shown restraint, patience and is well within its rights to place reasonable limits on religious freedom.
Religions in Russian and everywhere else are free to believe what they wish. Teaching these beliefs to others and acting on them are a much different matter. I may believe I can fly. But I don’t act on it because I can’t, and I don’t teach others that they can fly because they can’t either. There are many cities that have laws against trying to fly off of buildings, with or without parachutes or mechanical aids and irrespective of one’s attempts to kill one-self. The reason is that your stupid falling body may harm others.
In early US history, Puritans routinely publicly humiliated ‘sinners’ in stockades, burned a few ‘witches’ at the stake and killed a few heretics and children for various ‘crimes’ against the church. Churches supported bans on blacks marrying whites and marriages between gays and lesbians. Religious ‘freedom’ is not a guarantee and every nation/state has a compelling interest and right to place appropriate, rational limits on religion. Warren Jeffs is in prison for a reason.
Governments have an inherent right to establish laws that will limit a group’s abilities to harm others. That is all this is about. Vlad and his Impalers believe the Dark Lords are dangerous and can bring no long term good to his country.
And they are right.
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Help - I'm going to be conducting the watchtower study
by Saltheart Foamfollower init looks like i'm going to have to take the watchtower study for a while so i thought i'd seek help.. i wont be outing myself or stating anything too controversial, but so far i have come up with the following tactics : 1) ask questions which will get people thinking even if it is about something insignificant - developing a questioning mind is the key to discovering ttat as far as i am concerned.
2) highlight any extreme points so that some might realise they are extreme.
3) highlight any good points - helping others in need for example - just because it is the right thing to do.. if anyone has any general comments which could help, please post them here.
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