I'm not surprised. New Zealand has been showing up on the happiest countries list for a while, due to a combination of economic and social conditions, including the reduction in religiousness of the people. What do the dubs have that would appeal to them? And if the real numbers were revealed, the WT would likely be losing members quickly in NZ.
Posts by DJS
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10Year Report for New Zealand out - 2% increase.
by skin incan some one tell me why the last month of the service year (aug 07) has an almost 10% increase over the other months of this year?
july 07 had 12868 pubs, whereas aug 07 had 13852 pubs.
the same increase happened in the previous service year in the last month.
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divorce rate-education level
by doneandout inin the paper a while ago, there was a study done on divorce rate compaired to education level.
basicly they found higher education went with lower divorces, while lower education went with higher diverces.. and guess where jw fall into?.
also, more lasting harm caused by the jw's lack of education besides lost jobs, even if one does leave..
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DJS
NY, Thanks. Yes that contiributes. the article i cited included that. Marrying young is also influenced by education and culture in addition to religion.
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divorce rate-education level
by doneandout inin the paper a while ago, there was a study done on divorce rate compaired to education level.
basicly they found higher education went with lower divorces, while lower education went with higher diverces.. and guess where jw fall into?.
also, more lasting harm caused by the jw's lack of education besides lost jobs, even if one does leave..
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DJS
The data is widely known and available. Education plays a role. So does religion and culture.
In a new study titled "Red States, Blue States, and Divorce: Understanding the Impact of Conservative Protestantism on Regional Variation in Divorce Rates," which will be published later this month in the American Journal of Sociology, demographer and University of Texas at Austin professor Jennifer Glass set out to discover why divorce rates would be higher in religious states like Arkansas and Alabama -- which boast the second and third highest divorce rates, respectively -- but lower in more liberal states like New Jersey and Massachusetts.
It was previously thought that socioeconomic hardships in the South were largely to blame for high divorce rates, however Glass and her fellow researchers concluded that the conservative religious culture is in fact a major contributing factor thanks to "the social institutions they create" that "decrease marital stability."
Also, the following data suggests that the more religious a population is, the less educated and the more dysfunctional the society. This is true whether it is a state or country:
Education: Blue states are better educated than red states.
Degrees: Blue staters are more likely to go to college
Divorce: Blue staters are more likely to stay married
Mothers: Blue staters are less likely to get pregnant in their teen years
Shootings : Blue Staters are less likely to shoot each other to death
Driving : Blue Staters drive better and have fewer auto accidents
Crime and Drunk Driving: Blue staters drive (or at least get arrested less) while intoxicated less frequently and are less likely to commit crimes
Income: Blues make more money
Obesity - Red State voters are more likely to be overweight and/or obese -
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Is my clinging on to a belief in a Creator doing me any harm?
by KateWild ini use the word clinging, as i feel that is what i am doing.
as far as my knowledge of science, namely chemistry is concerned, i am satisfied there is evidence of a creator.
i am happy to believe this.
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DJS
Well it's about damn time!!! LOL. I've been doing somersaults, juggling and back flips all morning, dropping rat after rat at your doorstep seeking approval!!!! Geesh. What a guy has to do around here. ;-)
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105
Is my clinging on to a belief in a Creator doing me any harm?
by KateWild ini use the word clinging, as i feel that is what i am doing.
as far as my knowledge of science, namely chemistry is concerned, i am satisfied there is evidence of a creator.
i am happy to believe this.
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DJS
You are on a Pink Floyd sojourn. Another brick in the wall (of your theism) is removed with each passing week/month you post on this site. Been there done that. It can be scary thinking the wall and its foundation will be entirely removed. I predict it will and you will wonder why the fuss.
Losing my religion was a lot like the scene in Forest Gump where he has taken up running (popular in the '70s America) and has become somewhat of a national inspiration to others. One day, while running in the desert along an open highway with barren landscape (and a lot of Gumpians following him) he just stops in his tracks and says: "I'm pretty tired. I think I'll go home now.' Voice over: "And just like that, my runnin' days were over."
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105
Is my clinging on to a belief in a Creator doing me any harm?
by KateWild ini use the word clinging, as i feel that is what i am doing.
as far as my knowledge of science, namely chemistry is concerned, i am satisfied there is evidence of a creator.
i am happy to believe this.
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DJS
Yes. yes. Yes.
"Due to the fact we all experience consequences to some extent when we leave, we are still involved with WT and gradually learning new things is probably the wisest way to learn."
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105
Is my clinging on to a belief in a Creator doing me any harm?
by KateWild ini use the word clinging, as i feel that is what i am doing.
as far as my knowledge of science, namely chemistry is concerned, i am satisfied there is evidence of a creator.
i am happy to believe this.
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DJS
Kate,
One of my best friends (he was one of my profs in my master's program) is Jewish who keeps kosher. And an atheist. His jewishness is based on his deep respect for his people, culture, traditions and struggles. I learned a lot from him about the Jewish faith and even more about his culture. He is very smart (two PhDs) and both his sons have been Navy Seals (U.S.); one still is. They have an achievement culture which would serve all of us well. It's very similar to my current GF (Hindu tiger mom!). Failure is NOT an option. Neither of them believe in Jesus or a god as we think of it, but they are two of the most ethical decent people Ive known.
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105
Is my clinging on to a belief in a Creator doing me any harm?
by KateWild ini use the word clinging, as i feel that is what i am doing.
as far as my knowledge of science, namely chemistry is concerned, i am satisfied there is evidence of a creator.
i am happy to believe this.
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DJS
Kate, that sounds like a very normal progession. I spent years researching relgiion, taking relgion classes as electives, thinking about my theism and its roots, going to various churches and temples and speaking with friends who had much different views (Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, etc.). But only in a learning mode; my Dub days left me with no desire to ever proselytize again. Ever.
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105
Is my clinging on to a belief in a Creator doing me any harm?
by KateWild ini use the word clinging, as i feel that is what i am doing.
as far as my knowledge of science, namely chemistry is concerned, i am satisfied there is evidence of a creator.
i am happy to believe this.
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DJS
Kate,
I can't think of any personal harm that would befall you if you left your theism behind. It took me, as I have stated before, many many years to leave my theism (I didn't have the Internet in all of its present glory when I was on my sojourn - if I had it wouldn't have taken as long). And as I have stated before, I like myself so much better now than I did when I was a Dub/theist. And it isn't even close. I am more tolerant and understanding, less judgmental and I do not waste any of my precious limited mental and emotional resources worrying about such, which gives me more energy to do other things.
My son almost died in my arms a few years after exiting the Borg. While waiting on the medical ambulance I remember holding him and telling him how much I loved him and I simply wasn't ready for him to not be with me. It was several days afterward that it dawned on my at no time did i ask, pray or think of asking or praying to any god. I knew then that the circle was complete. I have developed many very close relationships since exiting the Borg; I have many friends and remain stupid crazy close to my two kids (both hate the Borg as much as I).
I went back to college and have completed two degrees and am working on a third. My professional career has sky-rocketed. It isn't likely any of that would be the way it is had I stayed in the cult.
Not to worry, Kate.
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An important difference between atheists and true believers
by Hortensia intrue believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.
atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.
http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).
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DJS
Viola,
You see things much differently than I. The only area of possible agreement I would have with you, Ap and the others is whether atheists attempt to hijack clearly theist posts. Ap was given a homework assignment and couldn't find any recent examples; there are probably some. Hopefully these will be few and far between and become even fewer as the discourse about it continues. As I have stated before, most theists respect non-theist dicussions as well; some do not. so let's call that a wash, even-steven and learn from and respect one another.
I don't post a lot, and you may be referring to me as an 'aggressive' atheist. I do not think of myself in that manner and do not act in that manner on this site. But I do call out stupid, ignorant, irrational, reactionary devoid-of-facts posts on a routine basis. And I will continue to do so, as should everyone else on this site. But I almost exclusively limit by aggressiveness to supporting gays, for example, and the areas where I am an expert.
This site is already dominated by theist, JW specific posts and commentary. If it reflected that more than it does, it isn't likely the atheists would be here (I wouldn't). And without the atheists among us this site would be dull and bland while high school graduates talked about scripture and all things Borgian (just like the Kingdom Hall we all left).