reporter

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  33

  Are the Nephilim Still Exerting Influence?

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article found here, click on left-column "updates/nesara", then click on first link....

  nibiru and the anunnaki by d.m.

  these anunnaki elite were later known as elohim and nephilim.

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  reporter

  Fuck you MrMoe. I didn't go through all this trouble to have a dumb-ass comment from you. I would hope there are more intelligent people here who won't make lame-ass comments such as you have in the last 90 seconds.
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  33

  Who Is Jehovah?

  by reporter in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  christians should all honestly and thoroughly investigate the contradictions between the old and new testaments in terms of the descriptions of god.. .

  the god of the new testament is described as a god of love, mercy and peace.. .

  the god of the old testament is described as jealous, vengeful god, a war-monger.

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  reporter

  You now attacked two of my posts, and after explanation, continue to deride me. Mr.Moe, Shut the DELETEDup.

  Edited by - reporter on 29 December 2002 21:30:4

  Edited by - Englishman on 30 December 2002 5:10:29
• 
  33

  Are the Nephilim Still Exerting Influence?

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article found here, click on left-column "updates/nesara", then click on first link....

  nibiru and the anunnaki by d.m.

  these anunnaki elite were later known as elohim and nephilim.

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  reporter

  Like I was trying to say in the original post, I post this, not to debate Sitchin or other mythological writings, but my goal is to show how what we see today in the WTS is strikingly similar to the Bible account of the Nephilim (whether they actually existed is another point), and these aspects as they relate to the religious control groups we see in our day, and their fruitage dastardly works.
• 
  33

  Who Is Jehovah?

  by reporter in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  christians should all honestly and thoroughly investigate the contradictions between the old and new testaments in terms of the descriptions of god.. .

  the god of the new testament is described as a god of love, mercy and peace.. .

  the god of the old testament is described as jealous, vengeful god, a war-monger.

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  reporter

  Despite the obvious crackpot-type post that this appears to be, there has to be something said for why the Witnesses believe in a Jehovah that is a "manly person of war..."

  If you are/were a JW, stop and think of how many Jehovah is going to war songs and related themes you can find in the Kingdom Melodies songbook. I post this article to give pause for thought.

  People here in the past have posted here that Jehoover-is-the-great-hitman-in-the-sky, or words to that effect. I believe that by uncovering some of the root causes of this problem worship, perhaps we can steer people away from the JWs and all the destructive spirituality that accompanies such groups.
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  33

  Are the Nephilim Still Exerting Influence?

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article found here, click on left-column "updates/nesara", then click on first link....

  nibiru and the anunnaki by d.m.

  these anunnaki elite were later known as elohim and nephilim.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  reporter

  article found here, click on left-column "updates/nesara", then click on first link...

  Nibiru and the Anunnaki by D.M. As world events continue to unfold, more and more will witness the ugliness of the predominance of bullying behaviour. The rulers of the stronger nations are forcing their will upon the weaker nations and will become more demanding and unreasonable. Nation states are using an enormously oppressive power much like that of masters over slaves. History is repeating itself again. There was once a super race of aliens known to the ancient people of the Earth as the Anunnaki. For many reasons, the Anunnaki have been reduced in power today. This race of beings thrives on conquest and enslavement of those who are under them. This is my account of the story of Nibiru and the Anunnaki: In recent years, there have been many speculative writings about Planet X, which is also known as Planet Nibiru. Most of these writings are based somewhat on Zecharia Sitchins book, The Twelfth Planet. Sitchin, like Velikovsky and Darwin, used his respective theories to support his claims. Not only are these traits of the Bush regime, they apply to fundamentalist cults as well. The following article is highlighted by myself to outline the comparisons to the Old Testament war-mongerer mindset, contrasts to true Christianity, and perhaps shed some light on how this has influenced the Watchtower (as well as world leader thinking).... A question arises: Is Nibiru real? The answer to that is a resounding "Yes". There are those who believe that the Anunnaki of Nibiru are coming back to Earth soon. They believe that Planet X is going to pass by Earth, in May or June of 2003, on its 3,600 year orbit around our sun. Such believers are terrified of the consequences that a close pass by Nibiru might bring. They fear this will cause earthquakes, tidal waves, severe flooding, food shortages due to climatic conditions, diseases, meteor fire storms, volcanic eruptions and the like. They are afraid that it will result in a great catastrophic infliction of loss of life on Earth. Planet Nibiru (Ne.Bi.Ru) is known by many names, such as: Planet X, The Twelfth Planet, Marduk, Paradise, "Heaven" and the "Kingdom of the Heavens" and etc. in various cultures. Although Nibiru has been called The Twelfth Planet, technically it is not a planet of our solar system. In fact, it is a planet from another solar system and the star that was the sun of its solar system has been extinguished. Nibiru was never visible from the Earth but the star which was the centre of Nibirus solar system was visible in the skies from Earth. The orbiting pattern of Nibiru gave the Anunnaki the advantage of having a mobile observatory from which they could observe and investigate many other planets near its orbit. The early people named Planet X as Nibiru in Sumerian, and Marduk in Babylonian. It has been said that the ancient Mesopotamians believed that Nibiru was the twelfth planet in our solar system and that it was "heaven" where their gods resided and came from. Nibirians, the people of Nibiru, are often referred to as Anunnaki, Nephilim, Elohim (plural for god), and Mardukians. I shall refer to them as Anunnaki as this is what the general population was known as by the Sumerians and by those at the present time. The word "Anunnaki" literally means "those who came from heaven to earth". In the Old Testament these "heavenly" visitors are called "Anakim". Nibiru was populated by a reptilian super race and governed by elite aristocracy known as the "Nefilim" in Hebrew, which means "they who have come down from the heavens to earth". The Anunnaki were one of the many technologically advanced alien races at the time. In fact, their civilization was advanced far beyond most others of their time. The Anunnaki called their home star (sun) "ZAOS". The Anunnaki are a belligerent and conquering race. They are fierce, evil, lustful, incestuous, bloodthirsty, deceitful, jealous and domineering. I don't want to get into the veracity of Planet X and Sitchin's works as regards historical fact, however the Bible story of these Nephilim seem to be glossed over in WTS publications, and perhaps we can get more insight into what were perhaps extraordinary previous civilizations... They are also carnivorous and are often cannibalistic. They also demand human sacrifices of virgins from those they conquer and from their own kind whom they enslave. If you imagine the worst characteristics you can conceive in Satan, you have well concocted an impression of the Anunnaki. They specialize in mind control. They also nearly perfected economic control with the development of money and the usury system. They have conducted extensive genetic engineering and have genetically engineered among other things, a super reptilian race which the Anunnaki called the "Ducaz". The Ducaz are used for conquering and controlling the Nibirian population and those of other conquered races. Thus, the Ducaz are Reptilians. Geez, who does that remind you of? There are different types of Reptilians amongst them. Their masters, the Anunnaki Elite, are not the Ducaz. Like anything associated with the Anunnaki, there is a rigid, inequitable and regimented class structure amongst the Ducaz. The Reptilians, or Ducaz were sent by their "masters", the Nephilim or Elohim to fight in wars with other alien races and to serve as their spies, bodyguards and police force. There are many factions amongst the Anunnaki. One of the most bitter enemies of the Ducaz call themselves the "Pers-sires", a group of aliens for which I coined the word "Vulturites" many years ago. They are called Vulturites not because they look like vultures, as some have claimed. In fact, they dont look like that at all! There are very apt reasons why I have called them Vulturites which I will not go into in this discussion. Ironically, the Pers-sires are just a different faction of the Anunnaki race. However, the Ducaz (Reptilians) and the Pers-sires (Vulturites) have always been bitter enemies even to this day. The descendents of these two groups are now on Earth vying for supremacy of the world. Many of these are currently in political, financial, scientific, religious, legal, medical (especially in blood banks), entertainment, military, agrarian or commercial positions, and also in the sex industry. Most of these aliens are not consciously aware of their alien origins. The Anunnaki are flesh-and-blood, biological beings with abounding pride, arrogance, uncontrollable urges for adult and child sex partners (whether they be willing or forced participants), and they have a great appetite for conquest and control. This warlike race has an insatiable thirst for control of other beings and dominion over other races, and the less privileged classes of the Anunnaki. The Anunnaki developed and imposed complex, oppressive cast and gender systems. They are misogynists. That was why they eliminated the worship of the Divine Mother of the early people on Earth whom they conquered when they arrived. There was so much resistance to the elimination of the worship of the Divine Mother that the Anunnaki set up replacement "mothers" for various cultures such as the earth mother, mother nature and thereafter further corrupted the Divine Mothers image by falsely attributing Her with lustful, vengeful and jealous qualities. The interpretation of Kali is one of those false attributes. Due to a great collision, the Earth and the planets and moons of our solar system were severely affected. Nibiru too suffered great damage as a result of this celestial collision. This caused the Anunnaki to come to Earth in search of a permanent home. They did not come to search for physical gold, as Sitchin hypothesizes. Oddly, gold is not a native mineral to Earth, so the Anunnaki would not be expecting it on Earth. Nor did they come to Earth to mine for gold to make a shield to protect their ailing atmospheric conditions on Nibiru (If they did, they did not succeed in saving their planet, because their planet was destroyed). What appears in space is really the shadow of Nibiru, many light years away. However, the Anunnaki were delighted to find gold on earth because they used it for ornamentation. They also imported many slaves to mine the gold, and they used many of the Anunnaki lower classes to do the same. Since their home, Nibiru, was destroyed, the Anunnaki Elite and their cadre of attendants were forced to become transient, with the majority of them living in a huge spacecraft (like a city) that orbited the Earth. By then, the other Anunnaki races were already placed in different worlds that they had conquered, including Earth, Mars, and the rest of our solar system. They were also interspersed throughout the Orion and the Pleiades systems. Thus it can be seen that the Anunnaki are extraordinarily powerful and they were feared by many. The Anunnaki Elite and those who were permitted to travel moved from the orbiting spacecraft in smaller shuttlecrafts to visit Earth below. They also sent freighter class crafts to Earth for commercial and military purposes. Inter-planetary slave trade was prevalent and lucrative. It is no wonder that the ancient people feared their gods who they claimed lived in the sky. The majority of the earthlings now are genetically and symbolically part of the off-planet civilization of the Anunnaki. You will see why I say that as the story unfolds. The Anunnaki Elite of Nibiru are genetic manipulators who know how to create artificial life forms. In their arrogance they tried to play God. Let's see: misogynists, pedophilia, arrogance, rigid and inequitable class structure...hmmm.... Their highly advanced technology and their overbearing size and strength made them nearly invincible in the eyes of the early people. Thus, the Anunnaki Elite were seen and worshiped as gods by them. The Anunnaki Elite have sometimes been referred to as the Nordics or Blondes. They are tall, robust, full of vigour, athletic and usually of fair complexion. Their symbol of status and power is the winged disc that represents their home star ZAOS. These Anunnaki Elite were later known as Elohim and Nephilim. These evil Elohim must not be confused with the Divine Elohim of the True Creation. The Anunnaki Elite (the Nephilim) created many religions so they could be worshiped as gods; this gives them great satisfaction. The Anunnaki developed religions by corrupting any spirituality they observed in the indigenous people of the Earth. They employed religions as a powerful means of controlling the indigenous people. Different religions were set up with doctrines in direct opposition to one another in order to breed disharmony, distrust, confusion, war and arrogance. The Anunnaki planted hybrids from other worlds on Earth when they came. Not long after their arrival, they began to spread themselves as far and as wide as they could and took control of sections of the planet by genetic engineering. They forced the indigenous people out of their own establishments and forced them into total submission. They used the indigenous people for controlled experimentation of biological breeding. Let's see again...corrupting the true spirituality of Christ by having Paul, for example, promote chauvinism in the congregation (and thereby inducing future religions to follow his erroneous example), religion controlling people, total submission....GEEZ, sounds like a line-by-line description of the WTS and the GB... Today, there are aliens who abduct earthlings for cloning and they also mutilate animals. Most of these abductions and assaults are carried out by Anunnaki Remnants (a term I use to indicate those Anunnaki who were stranded on Earth). As mentioned earlier the Anunnaki Elite conquered and enslaved the primitive people who were already residing on Earth. Some claim that Jesus was a hybrid from Nibiru, which maliciously implies that He was an Anunnaki. This is patently false. Jesus is in fact, an Avatar of the Light who "incarnated" here to remind and to re-awaken the "sleeping" Divine beings of their true Divine origin. In Genesis 6:2-4 it is recorded by the Anunnaki (who wrote most of the Old Testament) that "the sons of God" (the Anunnaki males) "saw the daughters of men that they were fair". In developing this doctrine, the Anunnaki were trying to show that the "sons of God" were lured to Earth and corrupted by the indigenous women of Earth. In fact, the women of Earth at that time were purer than the males and they were revered by the males because earthlings spirituality still retained closeness to the Divine Mother. The Anunnaki had to twist this to make it appear that women were a gender that could not be trusted and that they must be oppressed by the males. The "sons of God" abused and horribly mistreated the indigenous women of the Earth to set the example of a misogynistic model for the indigenous men of the Earth to follow. It was very critical to the plans of the Anunnaki to switch the gender of God from Mother to Father. Anunnaki chauvinism has caused women to be subjugated to men and treated as their "footstools" in many cultures including the Arab, Asian, Jewish and Western societies. In Isaiah 66:1 is found the saying "Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool . . .". Abso-frigging-lutely! Doesn't THAT sound like the topic of conversation lately in revealing the WTS in male chauvinism and abuse of women! The litany of posts lately here on this subject by many intelligent people can attest to that. In Ephesians 5:22-24 Paul, who was an incarnated Anunnaki, wrote: Wives submit yourselves onto your husbands, as onto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore, as the church is subject onto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Therefore according to the teaching of Paul, the wives are the footstools and the husbands are the thrones. In one usurping stroke, Paul, on behalf of the Anunnaki, subordinated all Christian women to an inferior status. Many churches equate the teaching of Paul to the teachings of Christ. This is blasphemy! As evidence that the Anunnaki authored much of the Old Testament and corrupted it, let us consider how they have manipulated the writings of Moses, who was one of the incarnated Attas of Light. In Exodus 24:7 is found a passage telling the people that they must "be obedient" to the blood sacrifice. Further, in Numbers 27:20, Moses was supposed to have said that the people must "be obedient" to Joshua. Again in Deuteronomy 4:30 Moses supposedly commanded his people to "be obedient" to Gods voice in the tribulations and the latter days. Yet again, the Anunnaki purposely corrupted the sayings of Moses in Deuteronomy 8:20, where one is told that one must "be obedient" to God or: As the nations which the Lord destroyth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the Lord your God. These cannot be the words of the true God of Love. These are the words of the Demiurges chief agents the Anunnaki. The true God does not punish people or nations or any thing. The only other time that the words "be obedient" appear in the Old Testament is in 2 Samuel 22:25 where it is found that "Strangers shall submit themselves unto me: as soon as they hear, they shall be obedient unto me". Clearly, these are the words of the slave masters, the Anunnaki. There are only three other occasions where the words "be obedient" appear in the Bible, and all these are attributed to Paul, the Anunnaki. In 2 Corinthians 2:9 Paul directs his (Pauls NOT Jesus) followers to be obedient in all things. Ephesians 6:5 reads: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling and singleness of your heart, as unto Christ". Is not this awful? The last time the words "be obedient" appear in the Christian Bible is in Titus 2:9 where Paul says, "Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things" Clearly, Paul was a representative for a god of terror and a slave masters henchman. As can be seen by the examples of the quote "be obedient" it can be seen that Jesus tried to undo the teachings of the Anunnaki in the Old Testament but Paul corrupted Jesus teachings and in so doing, returned the "god" of fear and terror to power. The creation myths throughout the world are similar in their major thrusts. Why is this so? This is because the various creation myths were spread by the Anunnaki as they migrated around the world. The religions set up by the Anunnaki to control and manipulate the populations incorporated the various creation myths. These religions are not based upon love, they are based upon fear. Wherever the Anunnaki went and conquered, they consolidated the people into densely populated communities so they could better force the people to work for them and to control them physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually and economically as slaves. They control by instilling fear and keeping the people ignorant. These patterns still exist today. However, they are more subtle and often appear more attractive today than they did in the past. Thus in this sense, humans were slaves to the Anunnaki before, and they remain so today. The Anunnaki introduced the adornment of the body with jewellery. They also promoted very expensive tastes that would force people into economic slavery. They introduced polygamy, incest and paedophilia, which are hallmarks of the Anunnaki. Such traits are noted in various cultures, including the ancient Egyptian royalty and the patriarchs of the Old Testament who followed the precepts ordered by the Anunnaki. In many senses, we in this technologically advanced age, are slaves to the modern commodities, governments, economic systems, cultures, religions, customs, mores and etc. But most importantly we are slaves to this Virtual Reality, blinded by its subtleties and falsehoods and its simulation of the Divine Realms. The Anunnaki first visited the Earth about 500,000 years ago. By then, they had already conquered the Pleiades and Mars and many other worlds. After some trials, the first wave of successful genetic engineering occurred on Earth about 300,000 years ago. The Anunnaki introduced many alien races that they had conquered and implanted them on Earth. They also kidnapped a special race called the Race of Women and brought them to Earth. This race of women suffered greatly under the suppression and abuse of the Anunnaki. Various alien races from other worlds were brought to Earth to be used as slaves by the Anunnaki Elite. They also kidnapped aliens from other worlds and brought them here as slaves. Some were sold for hard labour, some for sex, some for soldiering and etc. Through genetic engineering, women were made physically inferior to men in stature, strength and speed. Even in occupations where strength and speed are irrelevant, such as in the clergy, law, medicine, politics, commerce, science, etc., women are greatly disadvantaged and obstructed from participating even up to this day. This shows the extent of the chauvinistic influence of the Anunnaki. Apart from genetic engineering on humans, there was also similar work carried out on various species including the birds, reptiles, fish, beasts and plants. The Anunnaki also practise bestiality. They created monstrosities, some of which are legendary, some were half-animal, half-human, others were half-bird or half-fish and half-human. The Genesis story was created and recorded by the civilization that was re-started by the Anunnaki. The Sumerians were amongst the earliest ones to possess recordings on tablets describing the history of the Anunnaki on Earth which was in accordance to what the Anunnaki dictated. To quote a famous WT article, we all know there are mistakes in the Bible. What I have highlighted above should more than be convincing enough of that, I hope. Again, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and any other cliche you can think of, and Jesus had to buck an insurmountable attack on Christian freedom in his day, even from "Bible writers" and the "first century congregation" was by no means exempt from this influence, which yielded chauvinism, pedophilia, mind-control, historical revisionism, suppresion and abuse of victims, and women, and rooted fear-based religions cults. If all this is not a sorry testament to the real state of the Jehovah's Witnesses today, I don't know what is. It doesn't matter. NT or OT, the Bible is filled with examples of oppression, corruption and outright evil, of which Christ sought to counter. And, I think the above delivers a strong argument to how we SHOULDN'T be following the first century "Christians" as well, like the GB has through the decades. Jesus did NOT support Paul in any of these writings. I feel it takes a real Christian to discern the difference.
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  33

  Who Is Jehovah?

  by reporter in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  christians should all honestly and thoroughly investigate the contradictions between the old and new testaments in terms of the descriptions of god.. .

  the god of the new testament is described as a god of love, mercy and peace.. .

  the god of the old testament is described as jealous, vengeful god, a war-monger.

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  reporter

  Who is Jehovah/Yahweh?

  Christians should all honestly and thoroughly investigate the contradictions between the Old and New Testaments in terms of the descriptions of God.
  
  The God of the New Testament is described as a God of love, mercy and peace.
  
  The god of the Old Testament is described as jealous, vengeful god, a war-monger. He said "Thou shalt not kill", then proceeded to help the Israelites to brutally kill tens of thousands of Arabs in order to take their land.
  
  Can the two Testaments possibly be talking about the same thing?
  
  The 'god" of the Old Testament was actually a tribe of renegade space cannibals, with a leader named "Yahweh", who was the commander of a UFO spacecraft ("pillar of fire", "pillar of cloud", etc.) and a geneticist who cloned Adam and Eve from himself and put them on this planet which was already inhabited at that time, And the "first born sons" of the Israelites became road dinner for the "Jehovahs".
  
  All of this may sound UN-believable to most Christians. But try reading the Old Testament with these things in mind. For example, read the part about one of the Old Testament characters, Jacob, I think, wrestling with god, and winning!
  
  Also, notice that the god of the Old Testament is often referred to in the plural. (Use the King James Version). Some later versions are per-versions.)
  
  See also the book The Lost Tribes From Outer Space, by Marc Dem and The Twelfth Planet, by Zecharia Sitchin.
  
  - Robert E. McElwaine (USA), New Dawn Magazine, July 2001.

  Virgil Armstrong calls Jehovah/Yahweh "head of the Lesser Gods".
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  9

  The Antichrist?

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as posted here

  if maitreya is the anti-christ, he sure is a lazy one!

  the guy is holed up somewhere in london and is about middle aged by now.

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  reporter

  as posted here

  If Maitreya is the anti-Christ, he sure is a lazy one! The guy is holed up somewhere in London and is about middle aged by now. When will he make his appearance, when he's using a walker to get around and eating creamed corn when he misplaces his false teeth?

  The true anti-christ is fear based religion, which Kathleen Keatings excels at. Fear, gloom, hate, terror, doom....buzzwords for her concept of God and religion. I feel sorry for her and her ilk. The rest of us will rest in a God of Love, as represented by Jesus. If she'd give him 1/10th the attention she gives to this anti-christ bogeyman, she wouldn't have time to obsess on the negative all the time for personal profit and notoriety.

  There is something to be said for fear-based religion cults.
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  19

  12-24-02 Book Study - Pot calling the Kettle Black

  by eyeslice in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the two "get out of jail cards" that the society plays when explaining away failed predictions are:

  god's prophecies are never wrong, its just our interpretation, let's wait a while and when things are clearer we'll tell you in retrospect what the prophecy really was.

  we never actually said that, it was the rank and file, they got over excited.

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  reporter

  The problem is, however, PM Chretien has bull-headed through a ratification of that piece of anti-think-propaganda-junk-science called the Kyoto accord. Global warming my ass. My farts probably contribute more...there have always been forest fires, and climactic fluctuations. Point for Bush for not signing that dumb-ass treaty (although I hardly support him on any other topic...)
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  4

  North Korea Flexes Muscle...

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  nuclear showdown averted.

  bush defuses north korean war threat .

  north korea and the united states are locked in a game of high-stakes brinkmanship whose key players include russia and china.

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  reporter

  Nuclear Showdown Averted
  
  Bush Defuses North Korean War Threat
  
  North Korea and the United States are locked in a game of high-stakes brinkmanship whose key players include Russia and China. A nuclear Middle East and the coming US war against Iraq are also factors in the test of wills between President George W. Bush and North Korean leader Kim Jong-il.
  
  The latest near-showdown was quickly defused by Washington.
  
  DEBKA-Net-Weekly's Washington and Korean Peninsula sources report: Tuesday, December 9, the seized Singapore-registered So San was on course for the Indian Ocean island of Diego Garcia - after being intercepted in the Arabian Sea before it reached Yemen with a cargo of 15 North Korean Scud missiles - when Pyongyang slapped down an ultimatum to Washington: Release the freighter and cargo or else North Korea will invade South Korea, a threat which opened up the prospect of nuclear war.
  
  The ultimatum was conveyed through "open intelligence channels" between the two countries. It carried no deadline. Therefore, no ticking clock needed dismantling by the Bush administration.
  
  On Wednesday, December 11, after Yemen undertook to discontinue its ballistic missile purchases from Pyongyang, Bush, as US commander-in-chief, signed a directive ordering the US Navy to release the vessel and its cargo to the Yemen authorities.
  
  The last time a US government faced a nuclear ultimatum was during the 1973 Middle East war, when Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev squared off against President Richard Nixon, demanding that Israel lift its siege over the Egyptian Third Army in Sinai. Neither Washington nor Moscow has to this day admitted how close they came to a nuclear showdown.
  
  DEBKA-Net-Weekly's sources in Washington say the president's signature was needed mainly to put to rest a fierce debate at the top of his administration over whether to call North Korea's bluff. The alignment of officials for and against toughing it out with Kim Jong-Il differed from the lineup on how to handle Saddam Hussein.
  
  Secretary of State Colin Powell, the mandarins at State and CIA Director George Tenet led the camp favoring a quiet end to the crisis before it got out of hand, arguing that a military confrontation - let alone a nuclear standoff - with North Korea would be a major mistake.
  
  Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, his deputy Paul Wolfowitz and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice agreed - but for a different reason. They said the United States must not be deflected from its main mission of ousting Saddam.
  
  War with North Korea would also be costly - and not only in terms of manpower and lives lost. Experts put the price of US military action on the Korean Peninsula at about $100 billion - on top of the $150 billion to $200 billion cost of waging war on Iraq. It is doubtful whether the US economy could stand the strain of an outlay that large over so short a time.
  
  Deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage's departure for Seoul was meanwhile pushed forward in order to place an administration point man with South Korea's political, military and intelligence officials, in time for the tense presidential elections in that country on December 18. However, according to partial results, the next occupant of the presidential palace in Seoul will be the liberal Roh Moo-hyun, who has been labeled anti-American and seeks to revise the 50-year old alliance with Washington under which 37,000 US troops guard the country against the North. Roh also favors reconciliation with the communist regime in Pyongyang. His election may hinder rather than help the Bush administration's attempts to come to grips with the North Korean nuclear issue.
  
  From the first, the section heads in the CIA as well as US military commanders advocated picking up Kim Jong-Il's gauntlet. US military circles argued that America's assurance that it had no plans to attack North Korea - as Powell did on December 16 - would be taken by Pyongyang as American pliancy, making the US military stance on the Korean Peninsula - and in the Middle East - that much more difficult. North Korea, they warned, would correspondingly harden its attitude on its nuclear program and try to dictate terms; Saddam would capitalize on the North Korean leader's example by challenging the United States with a military or terrorist threat on the same scale, hoping to achieve the same results
  
  On one point, at least, the hard-line faction in Washington was soon vindicated. The ultimatums kept on coming.
  
  On Tuesday, December 17 - one week after the Yemeni Scud boat episode - North Korea again rattled its nuclear saber. A statement from Kim Jong-Il's government declared that war on the Korean Peninsula was unpreventable and its atomic program would go through - unless the United States signed a nonaggression treaty with his regime.
  
  At this point, Washington dug in its heels, implicitly threatening to cut off food aid, thereby ratcheting up the sanctions that include a moratorium on oil deliveries. The view from Pyongyang
  Clearly, Pyongyang is engaging in nuclear blackmail to further an agenda, in which DEBKA-Net-Weekly's Korean experts discern a dual rationale.
  
  Firstly, Kim is determined to retain his independence of action in foreign and state policy. Second, by weaving his munitions industry and nuclear weapons production into Middle East and Gulf flashpoints, he gains leverage on world issues and distances the pressures on him by spreading his wings far from his frontiers. This makes it hard for Washington to deal with the North Korean nuclear program as a purely Asian issue.
  
  DEBKA-Net-Weekly's sources in Washington say the US administration has also come to believe that Russia and China are quietly supporting North Korea's nuclear proliferation strategy as part of their growing opposition to a US military offensive against Iraq.
  
  North Korean nuclear activity in the Middle East (See previous DEBKA-Net-Weekly issues on its collaboration with Middle East nations) and its sales of ballistic missiles are building up to an irksome distraction for Washington as it plots its strategy for the region.
  
  Pyongyang has its hand in nuclear programs and missile technology transfers with several Middle Eastern countries, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran and Iraq. Step by step, its engineers and technology have been quietly investing in the Libyan-Egyptian al Kufra nuclear center (where Iraqi nuclear scientists are also employed), its long-range missile components are assembled in Egyptian factories near Alexandria, Syria's medium-range missile assembly plant and chemical and biological weapons laboratories near Hama in the north use North Korean components and technology and, as most recently confirmed by satellite imagery, North Korea transferred nuclear manufacturing facilities, including uranium enrichment equipment, to secret Iranian sites at Natanz and Arak. These are all multibillion projects.
  
  Any US military action in that part of the world would have to take those activities into consideration. In order to neutralize North Korea's leverage in the Middle East, the United States has a number of options:
  
  A.
  It could come to an arrangement with North Korea for its disengagement from the Middle East and the Arab world. That would almost certainly entail a US compromise with regard to the scope and aims of North Korea's nuclear program in Asia, on terms unacceptable to Washington.
  
  B.
  US President George W. Bush could appeal personally to the new Chinese president, Hu Jintao, and Russian president Vladimir Putin, asking them to lean hard on their North Korean neighbor to make him accommodate Washington's demands and terminate his nuclear weapons program immediately and unconditionally. Proliferating for Profit
  DEBKA-Net-Weekly's sources report that Bush did exactly that when he visited Beijing and Moscow last May, when Hu's predecessor, Jiang Zemin, was still in office. He did not mince his words, warning both leaders that their relations with Washington were on the line over this issue.
  
  The US President was astounded when he found himself politely but effectively rebuffed. Jiang and Putin contented themselves with a half-hearted approach to the North Korean leader. But Jiang explained that his hands were full with the leadership changeover in Beijing, while Putin said he was too busy fighting terrorism to find time for an issue as complicated as North Korea's nuclear disobedience.
  
  Both added that they could not ignore the long arm of North Korean military intelligence which had distributed its secret cells, some trained in terror tactics, across the vast Chinese and Russian Far East regions.
  
  In fact, senior US administration officials believe the Russian and Chinese rulers cued Kim they were merely going through the motions of carrying out the American president's wishes, while advising him he still had their green light to go ahead with developing his nuclear program and Middle East trade. They realized that China and Russia were both intent on feathering their own strategic nests, so to speak.
  
  As long as North Korea claims attention as a major stumbling block to American goals in the Middle East, by handing out nuclear assistance and ballistic missiles, it will take the heat off the indirect attempts by China and Russia to obstruct those same American goals.
  
  The two powers also own a vested interest in Pyongyang's continued commerce. Russian and Chinese companies contribute substantial elements to some of the North Korean multi-billion nuclear and missile projects in Middle Eastern countries, earning them roughly a cool one billion dollars a year each. Both would like to keep these projects going uninterrupted.
  
  Putin, in particular, complains that his support for American's war plans against Iraq has cost Moscow dear financially and cut into his political standing at home. He says he cannot afford any more sacrifices. To back up his complaint, DEBKA-Net-Weekly's sources report, Russian energy giant LUKOIL published a letter it claimed to have received from Iraqi deputy oil minister announcing Baghdad was ending its contract for the development of the West Qurna-2 oil field with LUKOIL and two other Russian companies, Zarabezhneft and Machinoimport. Iraq's ambassador to Moscow, Abbas Khalaf, said Sunday, December 15, that Baghdad terminated the contract because LUKOIL had failed to start work at the West Qurna-2 field. He dismissed LUKOIL's argument that it was hampered by UN sanctions against Iraq, retorting that other Russian companies had been able to maintain their operations in the country.
  
  According to Itar-Tass news agency, LUKOIL had a 68.5 percent share in the $20 billion project. The two other Russian companies each had 3.25 percent and Iraq's Oil Ministry had 25 percent. In an interview with the Moscow Times, a top LUKOIL executive said Baghdad had rudely awoken the company from its dream of becoming the lead operator of a vast Iraqi oil field. This was Saddam's payback for Moscow's vote for UN Security Resolution 1441 on arms inspections.
  
  In these circumstances, Putin feels justified in seeking to cut Russian companies' losses and not adding to them by clipping North Korea's wings.
  
  According to DEBKA-Net-Weekly's intelligence sources, the Chinese have taken a similar tack. Bush did not bother appealing to incoming Chinese leader Hu to squeeze North Korea, knowing the answer he would receive: Hu would say he was just setting out and too new in office to undertake policy decisions as major as this. The Bush administration may make one last approach to the outgoing president Jiang, offering him an open line to Washington after he retires - but with little prospect of success.
  
  In the final reckoning, the United States will face the same narrow option of going it alone as it does in Iraq. Its task will be complicated by having to grapple with North Korea's nuclear facilities in two world regions: at home in Asia and in the Middle East, where Kim Jong-Il has spread his nuclear and ballistic missile web.
  
  Copyright 2002 http://www.debka.net
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  4

  Islam=Violence article...

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  november 26, 2002. by larry witham, the washington times.

  religious broadcaster pat robertson said yesterday the news media and political leaders have failed to educate americans about violence in the koran and in islamic history and wishes president bush had never said that "islam is a religion of peace.".

  "he is not elected as chief theologian," mr. robertson said.. .

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  reporter

  November 26, 2002
  By Larry Witham, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
  
  Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson said yesterday the news media and political leaders have failed to educate Americans about violence in the Koran and in Islamic history and wishes President Bush had never said that "Islam is a religion of peace."
  
  "He is not elected as chief theologian," Mr. Robertson said.
  
  It would have been better for the president to speak only politically about the Islamic world, and not religiously.
  
  "It is leading to needless confusion," Mr. Robertson said in an interview with The Washington Times.
  
  Mr. Robertson's comments in the past year have been a major part of the public debate on how a predominantly Christian nation responds to a foreign enemy with Islamic roots.
  
  The public would be better served, Mr. Robertson said, if the media would investigate the content of the Koran and what he says are many passages that incite Muslims to kill nonbelievers. But reporting on that, he said, "is not politically correct."
  
  He said that the violence visited on Christians in many nations, such as Sudan and Nigeria, arises from Shariah, or Muslim law, showing that the violent behavior is tied to Islamic beliefs.
  
  Though Mr. Robertson relinquished his Baptist ordination to run for the Republican presidential nomination in 1988, he has taken it up again and describes his primary work as promoting Christianity.
  
  For 18 years, his Christian Broadcasting Network had an Arab-language broadcast station in Lebanon, but he said that "it was overrun by Hezbollah," a terrorist group.
  "In terms of Islam, I don't think the issues have been ventilated at all in the press because no one has read the Koran," he said.
  
  Still, he said civil liberties in the United States are too important to allow the U.S. government the extra powers of domestic surveillance that it is asking for and that law-abiding Muslim citizens also must have protection.
  
  "I have never advocated ferreting out Muslims in America," he said. "They are citizens like I am. But if they are funneling money to Hamas, organizing terrorist cells or holding anti-American rallies, they ought to be deported."
  
  U.S. Muslim groups have organized a yearlong project to put a package of books and a PBS video on Islam, all by American authors, in the nation's 16,000 public libraries to promote understanding of the religion.
  
  The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) reports that supporters have sent in 4,219 "sponsorships" of $150 each to pay for the library package, but the number of libraries accepting them is not yet clear.
  
  "It's a yearlong campaign, and it will take a year or so to sort that [number] out," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper.
  
  Last week, Mr. Hooper said on a New York radio show that conservative religious leaders such as Mr. Robertson were "equivalent" to Osama bin Laden because they want to divide the world into a religious war.
  
  When asked whether Christian leaders would urge killing members of a different faith as bin Laden has done, Mr. Hooper said: "Given the right circumstance, these guys would do the same in the opposite direction."
  
  Though CAIR often demands apologies from groups that criticize Islam, Mr. Hooper would not apologize for his radio comment.
  
  He also confirmed reports that a Saudi billionaire, Prince Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdul Aziz al Saud, donated $500,000 to CAIR for the educational push. "I think most of it is going for the library project," Mr. Hooper said.
  
  The report about the Saudi money prompted conservative activist Paul Weyrich, chairman of the Free Congress Foundation, yesterday to say that while libraries have intellectual freedom, the library packages "present a highly misleading view of Islam, spray-painting over the religion's long history of animosity to Western values."
  
  He called for the American Library Association to issue a statement on the problems with stocking a one-sided view of Islam and urged the use of materials written by his foundation's staff.
  
  Mr. Hooper said a positive image of Islam is important to protect the civil rights of Muslims in the United States. He cited the FBI report yesterday that "hate crimes" against people of Middle Eastern ethnicity had increased from 28 in 2000 to 481 in 2001 across the country.
  
  Mr. Robertson said he opposed as "bad law" the government's plans, even in a time of war, to electronically track the lives of all Americans.
  
  "As the war on terrorism is going forward, the thing I'm concerned about is how much government control they'll have" on Americans' domestic life, he said.
  
  Meanwhile, he said his main business is not Islam but Christian evangelism.
  
  "I don't want to change my ministry and become some kind of Muslim fighter," he said. "I don't want to alienate Muslim people around the world," whom he believes want more information about the West and even Christianity.
  
  But Islam is "a deeply held religious belief pushed by mullahs all over the world" as a basis for attacking Jews and Christians, he said. "Maybe we can counter it by American propaganda. Maybe we can counter it by love."
  
  http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021126-14786718.htm