Posts by logansrun

90

Where is the evidence

by KGB in

jw
friends

many of you make claim that god does not exist, you say that you found your evidence in the bible, what i want to know is where is the evidence.

i am not interested in just mere thoughts but actuall evidence

logansrun

KGB,

have read many post here that others says the bible is incorrect

Okay, that's true. But then you say...

and that God could not exist.

I think you need to explain what you are trying to get across better. Do you mean that people (such as myself) who do not believe the Bible to be infallible also do not believe in the Judeo-Christian God? If so, then you are correct. Many people, through study and much investigation, have come to the conclusion that the Bible is grossly inaccurate about many things. If it is supposed to be God's word and it is filled with inaccuracies and morally repugnant accounts and teachings the logical conclusion would be that the supposed "God" of the Bible is as made up as any other divinity in religions such as Islam, Hinduism and Zoarostrianism. Can anyone prove this? No. It is not possible to prove anything with absolute certainty. Such is not the scientific method.

I have a faith in God and I do believe he does exist so it's not that I do not know what faith is.

Huh? I don't think anyone was accusing you of not having faith. I re-read that sentence a few times and I honestly don't see how it fits into your point.

I thought that maybe there was some substantial evidence that someone knew that would show evidence in Gods non-existance.

No one can prove the non-existence of anything. You cannot prove that your Judeo-Christian God exists and I cannot prove that there is a highly advanced alien race that exists in a universe which is invisible to our eyes. Get a book on logic and read it.

Many have said " Now that I really know the bible I have come to not believe in Gods word as true and that Jesus existance was a made up lie.

And many believe that Jesus did exist but was not the Son of God or a miracle worker. I believe that Jesus existed just like I believe Muhammed and the man that became the Buddha existed. Get a book about the historical Jesus and read it.

So I was loking for those who said these things to tell me where they got there evidence.

Oh, lord. You obviously have a computer. Do some internet searches under "atheism" or "Biblical criticism" and do the work yourself. Do you have a library card? Take a look at John Shelby Spong's "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism" and you'll see a lot of reasons why educated humans have given up a faith in the Bible as the literal word of God. I don't see the point in writing about things that have already been presented time and time again and are readily available. Just take the time and read for yourself.

Bradley

139

WTS Addresses Child Abuse - er, kind of...

by iiz2cool in

my wife, who is intent on re-activating herself as a dub since i da'd myself, went to the convention this past weekend.

she showed me this new publication entitled "learn from the great teacher", and placed great emphasis on these two pages i scanned and am posting.

it makes a poor show of telling children what to do when confronted by a child abuser.

logansrun

Room 215,

I thinks it's contemptible of the Society to place the onus/burden, whatever, on the innocent children to be vigilant and take action in cases of encounter with exploitative/molesting perverted adults.....

Now, that's got to be one of the stupidest things I've read on this forum. It's a GOOD thing that the Society, parents or whoever warn children that there are perverted people out there and that the children should stand up for themselves if they are confronted. To say that this puts a "onus" on children is totally distorting the aims of the Society here. Get real.

why not admonish the adults that such crimes will be severely dealt with rathr than depreive the chilren of their innocence by urging a paranoic vigliance on them? Sick, truly sick.

Um, hello -- they have. Have you read anything the Society says about this matter? Although their past, possibly current, policies on molestation are flawed that does NOT mean the Society does nothing to warn it's members or highlight the gross "sin" involved here. I happen to know for a fact that there have been people who have been DFd for child abuse.

Of course, the very fact that they publish such advice, along with a fairly graphic illustration, is a tacit admission thagt the allegations of widspread child abuse with the "spiritual paradise" are all too sccurate.

Not neccessarily. Could it be a "worldly" teacher, babysitter or relative that confronts a JW child with molestation? What you say is true -- the Society is not the beautiful paradise they like to say they are, but it does not neccessarily follow that they are more imperfect than they admit simply because of this chapter in the "Learn" book. Bradley

139

WTS Addresses Child Abuse - er, kind of...

by iiz2cool in

my wife, who is intent on re-activating herself as a dub since i da'd myself, went to the convention this past weekend.

she showed me this new publication entitled "learn from the great teacher", and placed great emphasis on these two pages i scanned and am posting.

it makes a poor show of telling children what to do when confronted by a child abuser.

logansrun

Nosferatu,

This is somewhat true. However, there are many people's feathers ruffled over this book, including mine.

This is an argumentum ad populum. Just because a lot of people don't like something doesn't mean they have a valid argument. That's like a JW saying, "We have 6 million members so we must be the truth!"

How come nobody's attacking the new brochure like this?

Because it's just a bunch of maps. Kind of hard to find much fault with that.

The problem is the society comes up with it's antecdotes on how to deal with life's problems according to the bible,

And I would say this is a problem since I view the Bible as being about as reliable as a watch that's been stepped on by a dinosaur. But, for a Bible-believer this is a plus...

but they discourage their members from reading "worldly" publications, or going out and getting professional "worldly" help with their problems. The problem is covered up with Watchtower publications saying "all will be perfect in paradise earth". While we're waiting for paradise earth, we need to deal with these problems NOW instead of putting them aside and letting them grow.

Good point, yet I don't think the Society is saying, "don't be worried about child molestation because it will be gone in the new system." If they held that view, why would they even print something like this in the first place? They want to help, yet are caught in a belief system and, more importantly, an organizational culture which makes dealing with this issue far more difficult. Basically, I don't see the "advice" the Society is offering here to be all that incredibly horrible. In fact, they make a couple good points.

Bradley

139

WTS Addresses Child Abuse - er, kind of...

by iiz2cool in

my wife, who is intent on re-activating herself as a dub since i da'd myself, went to the convention this past weekend.

she showed me this new publication entitled "learn from the great teacher", and placed great emphasis on these two pages i scanned and am posting.

it makes a poor show of telling children what to do when confronted by a child abuser.

logansrun

I haven't read through this entire thread but would like to share my view:

Yes, the Society is rather looney about many things and their totally unsupported religious views (ie, "Jehovah is watching; will protect") causes children to grow up thinking a myriad of irrational things. But, I think people are being way to hard on the Society here. Even though SoJ is an utterly annoying twit, she/he makes a very good observation: whatever the Society does or prints, some "apostate" will find fault with it! They're in a "lose-lose" situation!

I did a couple "google" searches on how to talk to your young children about child sexual abuse and practically all of them said to use the correct words for the genitalia. One site said that children should be taught these words as young as 18 months! I see absolutely nothing wrong with the publication using the words penis, vulva and sex. The problem is the context in which they use these words, not the words themselves. Even then, what they publish is not without some good advice on the matter.

Furthermore, the Society's past history on the issue of molestation is stained with many errors, but I must say they have NEVER endorsed molestation and, bad policy or not, do want to look out for the welfare of their children. To say they just don't care is a gross mistake. I hope what they have written will protect some youth in the future. I also hope they see themselves out of this cult.

Bradley

21

How many have multiple degrees on this forum?

by logansrun in

jw
friends

sometimes i think life was so much easier under the feudel system..... .

well, i'm still deciding on a career.

have i made much progress since my thread about teaching a few months ago?

logansrun

Core,

Funny how those who DID got degrees etc get used by the Society so much.........

This is so true and probably deserves discussion on a new thread. I know so many Bethelites who were the sons and daughters of rich elders who somehow figured the ban on higher education didn't apply to them. Now they are "Bethel yuppies." One of them got a law degree and is now in the legal dept. at HQ. Bastard.

No, I haven't gotten my degree yet, btw. My mother (a liberal JW) actually encouraged me to go to college after high school but I talked to my PO and he talked to the DO (!) and they both said my mother was thinking "worldly." Bastards.

Bradley

38

Movies JW style

by VeniceIT in

a friend and i were chatting tonight and he got on the subject of jw movie themes.

what if wts took over the film industry, what kind of movies would we see (using previous movie titles.

) it was entertaining and i knew you guys could come up with some good ones.. ted jarez and the chamber of secrets.

logansrun

Monty Python's Flying Circuit

16

Shining As Illuminators - New Pioneer School Book

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

hi everyone, i heard this first hand, although it remains unofficial at this point.. pioneers who are currently serving, will get the new replacement to the old pioneer book (1977).

i was told they most likely would go back to pioneer school to get one.

there is new information in there, though i wasn't told what it was.. bad news is (if you can call it that), that pioneers who are no longer on the list will not get the new book.

logansrun

simplesally,

Yep. I don't have a copy either. Wen't to pioneer school in '95. My sister has the older book and I've seen that list in her copy. Too bad she doesn't speak to me anymore or else I'd ask her for the page number.

Bradley

21

How many have multiple degrees on this forum?

by logansrun in

jw
friends

sometimes i think life was so much easier under the feudel system..... .

well, i'm still deciding on a career.

have i made much progress since my thread about teaching a few months ago?

logansrun

Orbiting the Sun,

You've got to be one of the more intelligent people on this board, I swear . I love science as well, although I have only taken a couple courses in college at this point (biology and geology). Most of my knowledge in the sciences comes from personal readings (Dawkins, Hawking, Dennet, etc.) and watching Discovery channel. The only drawback for me: poor at math . Damn. Who knows what I'll do.

Teenyuck,

Congrats on becoming a CEO! I'm from Chicago, btw.

Bradley

16

Shining As Illuminators - New Pioneer School Book

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

hi everyone, i heard this first hand, although it remains unofficial at this point.. pioneers who are currently serving, will get the new replacement to the old pioneer book (1977).

i was told they most likely would go back to pioneer school to get one.

there is new information in there, though i wasn't told what it was.. bad news is (if you can call it that), that pioneers who are no longer on the list will not get the new book.

logansrun

wannaexit,

That list is hilarious but you should know that it no longer even exists in the current "Illuminators" book. I believe they revised the book in the late 80's and took out the embarrassing suggestions on how to support your "full-time service."

Bradley

21

How many have multiple degrees on this forum?

by logansrun in

jw
friends

sometimes i think life was so much easier under the feudel system..... .

well, i'm still deciding on a career.

have i made much progress since my thread about teaching a few months ago?

logansrun

Ballistic,

Well, I don't go to a prestigious university here in the states, and my personal expenses are pretty low right now. I don't think I would ever go to a private institution simply because it costs so much money. I'll take the lesser facilities of public schools and avoid getting in too much debt.

Bradley