Posts by logansrun

This guy is great, one of the best lecturers I have ever heard. His lectures contained a certain grandeur that I cannot really express in a few words. Anyway...I asked him how he felt about the creationsim/evolution controversy and he said that he totally believed in evolution as we know it, but is a very religious person and an active member of his church. I never got to ask how he walked between the two worlds -- science and theology -- but he did say that most members of his church think that evolution is "from the Devil or something." He said that they were, in his opinion, "simply ignorant on the subject." I wanted him to explain more but just never got around to it.

B.

42

A question for Christians who do not believe in evolution (Not an argument)

by logansrun in

jw
friends

i have a question for anyone who is both christian and does not believe in evolution (natural selection, darwinian paradigm, call it what you will):.

how do you feel about christians who do believe in evolutionary theory?

keeping in mind that one of the great modern christian apologists, c.s.

logansrun

Mega,

I'm very surprised you did not find any Christians who believe in macroevolution. Off the top of my head I can name

CS Lewis

Ken Miller (Catholic and evolutionary biologist who wrote a very good book entitled "Finding Darwins God")

M. Scott Peck

All that is required, as far as I can tell, is an allegorical reading of Genesis.

B.

42

A question for Christians who do not believe in evolution (Not an argument)

by logansrun in

jw
friends

i have a question for anyone who is both christian and does not believe in evolution (natural selection, darwinian paradigm, call it what you will):.

how do you feel about christians who do believe in evolutionary theory?

keeping in mind that one of the great modern christian apologists, c.s.

logansrun

I have a question for anyone who is both Christian and does not believe in evolution (natural selection, Darwinian paradigm, call it what you will):

How do you feel about Christians who DO believe in evolutionary theory? Keeping in mind that one of the great modern Christian apologists, C.S. Lewis, did believe in evolution (though he probably would disagree with certain aspects of neo-Darwinism), what do you think of members of the faith who announce Jesus Christ as their savior, but also that humans evolved? Do you feel creationism is somehow a necessary dogma for any type of "true" Christian faith?

Just curious,

Bradley

59

Obliteration of the ego

by logansrun in

jw
friends

at long last i feel i have come to a great spiritual truth: the human ego stands as an impediment towards self-realization and must be obliterated, or at least diminished.

i have seen this as a running thread throughout many of the readings i have done -- from buddha and shankara to meister eckhart to arch-skeptic and atheist dr. albert ellis, the idea is to get beyond this concept of i. .

what freedom this could be!

logansrun

At long last I feel I have come to a great spiritual truth: The human ego stands as an impediment towards self-realization and must be obliterated, or at least diminished.

I have seen this as a running thread throughout many of the readings I have done -- from Buddha and Shankara to Meister Eckhart to arch-skeptic and atheist Dr. Albert Ellis, the idea is to get beyond this concept of I.

What freedom this could be! Imagine: To live your life without thinking about your self-consciousness. Whenever I have been happiest -- the few times I have experienced what psychologists call a state of "flow" -- has come when any concept of "me" is lost. We use this expression often, you know: "I just got lost doing..."

When you have lost your ego you need not get offended or mad. You become the situation. Objective. Impartial. Effective.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or does this make you just want to vomit or something?

B.

19

"If WTS is so intent on recruiting new members then...

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

...why are they also so intent on kicking people out?

you'd think they'd want to be more lax in order to keep their membership numbers up.

"--question asked by my non-jw husband.

logansrun

The last sentence there--what do you mean by that? Do you mean the WTS is hypocritical but its biggest flaw is that members adhere to its rules without question, believing they are doing the right thing?

No, I don't think the Society -- the GB, the "top" -- is necessarily hypocritical. The followers as well as the leaders believe they are doing the right thing. (Take that as a general statment...for all I know there are a few leaders here and there who are hypocritical about some things but, by and large, I don't see the Society as being hypocritical...just simply misguided).

B.

19

"If WTS is so intent on recruiting new members then...

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

...why are they also so intent on kicking people out?

you'd think they'd want to be more lax in order to keep their membership numbers up.

"--question asked by my non-jw husband.

logansrun

I think the nature of the question fails to take into account that there are multiple motivations for why the WTBTS is the way it is. Getting new members and retaining them is important, but so is upholding the doctrines which they unflinchingly hold. I don't understand why many people can't understand the fact that the GB and most of the WT "heavies" really believe the stuff they promulgate -- with the exceptions being an extreme minority, and usually still believing the essence of WT doctrines.

This question touches on the larger problem I see with many people's perspective of the organization on this board, that is, dichotomous and simplistic thinking. It's either "Watchtower totally good and benign" versus "Watchtower evil, money-loving, hypocritical."

The unfortunate thing is not that the WT is hypocritical, but that it is sincere.

B.

14

JWs and early christians.

by greendawn in

the jws claim that they are a faithful copy of the early christian apostolic church however there are numerous differences between the two eg in the way christ was perceived, the apostles thought of him as a lord to be worshipped and be invoked, something that the jws loath doing.

and also all the baptised participated in the bread and wine ritual weekly, rather than a handful participating yearly .

does anybody know of any other differences in belief or behaviour or overall structure?

logansrun

LOL, "tamales" are a Mexican food. Popular in the US, at least where I'm from (Chicago). The "tamales" reference was just a typical type of article one would find in the Awake. Perhaps it's just an inner joke for me.

The difficulty is that there were several different types of Christianities around just after Jesus death. There is no unanimity between the books of the New Testament. Paul would have probably been shocked by the Christology and theology of the Gospel of John. And Jesus would have been shocked by Paul!

I do believe that Jesus was an apocalyptic Jewish prophet who believed in a coming, earthly kingdom of God (located in the physical territory of Israel). That being said, the JWs come quite a bit closer to what Jesus preached than, say, the Catholic or Anglican Church.

B.

14

JWs and early christians.

by greendawn in

the jws claim that they are a faithful copy of the early christian apostolic church however there are numerous differences between the two eg in the way christ was perceived, the apostles thought of him as a lord to be worshipped and be invoked, something that the jws loath doing.

and also all the baptised participated in the bread and wine ritual weekly, rather than a handful participating yearly .

does anybody know of any other differences in belief or behaviour or overall structure?

logansrun

One other difference that I can think of is not so much of substance but of style. The early Christians -- of all the various Christianities -- seem to me to be more of an emotional and visceral bunch. Witnesses seem to have reduced passion down to a system.

Next paragraph...

Bradley

14

JWs and early christians.

by greendawn in

the jws claim that they are a faithful copy of the early christian apostolic church however there are numerous differences between the two eg in the way christ was perceived, the apostles thought of him as a lord to be worshipped and be invoked, something that the jws loath doing.

and also all the baptised participated in the bread and wine ritual weekly, rather than a handful participating yearly .

does anybody know of any other differences in belief or behaviour or overall structure?

logansrun

There are differences, and then there are similarities.

The over-riding theme of Jesus preaching was the coming, physical Kingdom of God and the apocalyptic judgment which would precede it. The earliest forms of Christianity had no conception whatsoever of a Trinity, nor did Jesus think of himself as God. The earliest Christians did not take part in earthly politics, for their political "solution" would come from the sky. The Witnesses come pretty close to mirroring these beliefs/practices.

Sometimes I feel like I was part of something similar to the most primitive strands of Christianity. Then I open up the latest Awake! with the article on tamales and I the thought fades. :)

Bradley