i can't believe in the short time that i have been visiting ex-jw forums at just how much i have grown.
since i first stumbled on this site i have stopped going to the meetings.
i do feel a bit lonely, but am trying to manage it.
I've had myself the same questions --but I think that during our "asleep" time, we all had little nagging doubts, but we buried them so deeply and unconsciously refused to deal with them. But as the old adge goes "better late than never".
I'm glad we've figured it out.
at the moment i am still going to all the meetings (for family reasons).. we have at the moment 1 df person who regularly comes (already df for 1.5 years).. when i opened him the door i always greeted him but in the hall i didn't as others could see it.. now i decided that my conscience can not bear this any longer.
i will greet him also in the hall or when others are around.. if any elders notice it and talk to me, i tell them my conscience does not allow to not greet that person.. did any of you do that too and have some experiences?.
Funny, I made the same decision a few years ago. When someone points out "you so and so is difellowshipped", i play stupid:Yeah, thanks for telling me"
i know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
NewYork44M- the points of reform are not my ideas. I do not for one minute believe this organization will change for any good. I only translated for LaFrancia. These ideas are his and his reform group in Italy right now.
i know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
LaFrancia: if the Italian reform team successfully manages to implement the reform strategies--I will eat pasta every day for a year :)
i know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
I few days ago I asked poster LaFrancia, a key member of the reform movement what is the" healthy part" of the organization.
The following post is a translation of the answer he sent me in Italian via PM
The healthy part of the organization that is whole is you, me , the honest publishers, the inactive brother, a sincere disfellowshipped, a genuine elder, a CO than doesn't always go along with the directives of the organization, but can distinguish betweenright and wrong. He could be a member of the governing body that is sincerely trying to change the status quo-----in other words the healthy part is all of us.
I could continue indefiniely.....but in a nutshell the healthy part is made up of individuals that display qualities of honesty and humility, that sacrifice without personal gain or interest, and that put aside the theocratic directives that minimize one's own Bible trained conscience and put the Bible first.
It could be reasonable to conclude that the healthy part is made up of more than half if not double that of the sick part. The only problem.....they do not have a voice. They cannot gather together to express themselves freely. The parameters of the organization do not allow this and we all know , someone that does is quickly accused of apostasy.
I'd like to point out that we are not against the primary doctrines...but against the sharks and falcons that oppose theocratic reforms in harmony with the Bible, some of these doctrines have been mentioned on JWD and many of you are in favour.
What would a reform like to see:
1. Financial transparacy
2. Elimination of judicial committee
3. Elimination of non Christian rules with respects to disfellowshipping practices
4. Giving publishes a voice on the process of appointing elders, CO's (if an elder is not suitable its the congregation, members that should have a say if he stays or not...it should be done with the publishers vote as it was done in Russels' time. In this way the power is transferred from the top to the BASE of God's people, as they see fit at discerning the behaviour of those appointed.
5. Elimination of DO's (these men don't serve theocracy)
6. Reform the elders (Not all elders should be used for shepharding calls, only those displaying outstanding qualities of humility and tact and furthermore publishers should have a choice in deciding to accept a certain brother or not.
7. Pedophiles: confessions of molestastions should not be accepted by the elders. Elders should ensure that the authorities are notified. Spiritual help to these individuals should come after a confession is made to the authorities
8. Governing Body: the governing body shoud act on a 2/3 majority and introduce impeachment procedures.
i know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
There is a definite movement within the ranks of Italian Jws towards reform from within. I don't know if its within the walls of the Italian Bethel or amongst individual members within the congregations spread throughout the Italian peninsula. I gleaned from the blog site proclamatoreconsapevole.blogspot.it.
I don't know the exact details--but there is something brewing at the Rome bethel. I have heard that 3 years ago it was taken over by the Selter branch in Germany. Then something happened and earlier this year Brooklyn send 3 North Americans to take over the administration.
I personally feel as most of you, that the Watchtower organization is beyond reform. It's a human man- made entity that has successfully built up a rich empire. Right now it is nothing more than a financial corporation that uses cheap human labour looking after its own interest. When I think of reforms I always go back to George Orwell's Animal Farm.
It has been mentioned that Ray Franz in the early years of his outsting was looking for a reform. But eventually he gave up on that idea, this is why he wrote his two books. I had the opportunity to speak with Ray many times and I don't believe that in his later years he had any faith in a reform of any kind.
i know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
Thank you Ablebodiedman- marked for careful reading.
"We've come along way baby".
I slugged for 100 hours a month on foot and with little support for the first 5 years and then for the next 15 . What a waste. I need a stiff drink now.
i know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
I have also come to the conclusion that reform has nothing to do with doing the right thing, but has everything to do with the fruition of their agenda.
i know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
LaFrancia: I could ask you in PM, but I will ask her: WHAT IS THE HEALTHY PART OF THE ORGANIZATION?
