NewYork44M- the points of reform are not my ideas. I do not for one minute believe this organization will change for any good. I only translated for LaFrancia. These ideas are his and his reform group in Italy right now.
wannaexit
JoinedPosts by wannaexit
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122
Can the jw organization be reformed?
by wannaexit ini know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
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122
Can the jw organization be reformed?
by wannaexit ini know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
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wannaexit
LaFrancia: if the Italian reform team successfully manages to implement the reform strategies--I will eat pasta every day for a year :)
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122
Can the jw organization be reformed?
by wannaexit ini know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
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wannaexit
I few days ago I asked poster LaFrancia, a key member of the reform movement what is the" healthy part" of the organization.
The following post is a translation of the answer he sent me in Italian via PM
The healthy part of the organization that is whole is you, me , the honest publishers, the inactive brother, a sincere disfellowshipped, a genuine elder, a CO than doesn't always go along with the directives of the organization, but can distinguish betweenright and wrong. He could be a member of the governing body that is sincerely trying to change the status quo-----in other words the healthy part is all of us.
I could continue indefiniely.....but in a nutshell the healthy part is made up of individuals that display qualities of honesty and humility, that sacrifice without personal gain or interest, and that put aside the theocratic directives that minimize one's own Bible trained conscience and put the Bible first.
It could be reasonable to conclude that the healthy part is made up of more than half if not double that of the sick part. The only problem.....they do not have a voice. They cannot gather together to express themselves freely. The parameters of the organization do not allow this and we all know , someone that does is quickly accused of apostasy.
I'd like to point out that we are not against the primary doctrines...but against the sharks and falcons that oppose theocratic reforms in harmony with the Bible, some of these doctrines have been mentioned on JWD and many of you are in favour.
What would a reform like to see:
1. Financial transparacy
2. Elimination of judicial committee
3. Elimination of non Christian rules with respects to disfellowshipping practices
4. Giving publishes a voice on the process of appointing elders, CO's (if an elder is not suitable its the congregation, members that should have a say if he stays or not...it should be done with the publishers vote as it was done in Russels' time. In this way the power is transferred from the top to the BASE of God's people, as they see fit at discerning the behaviour of those appointed.
5. Elimination of DO's (these men don't serve theocracy)
6. Reform the elders (Not all elders should be used for shepharding calls, only those displaying outstanding qualities of humility and tact and furthermore publishers should have a choice in deciding to accept a certain brother or not.
7. Pedophiles: confessions of molestastions should not be accepted by the elders. Elders should ensure that the authorities are notified. Spiritual help to these individuals should come after a confession is made to the authorities
8. Governing Body: the governing body shoud act on a 2/3 majority and introduce impeachment procedures.
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122
Can the jw organization be reformed?
by wannaexit ini know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
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wannaexit
There is a definite movement within the ranks of Italian Jws towards reform from within. I don't know if its within the walls of the Italian Bethel or amongst individual members within the congregations spread throughout the Italian peninsula. I gleaned from the blog site proclamatoreconsapevole.blogspot.it.
I don't know the exact details--but there is something brewing at the Rome bethel. I have heard that 3 years ago it was taken over by the Selter branch in Germany. Then something happened and earlier this year Brooklyn send 3 North Americans to take over the administration.
I personally feel as most of you, that the Watchtower organization is beyond reform. It's a human man- made entity that has successfully built up a rich empire. Right now it is nothing more than a financial corporation that uses cheap human labour looking after its own interest. When I think of reforms I always go back to George Orwell's Animal Farm.
It has been mentioned that Ray Franz in the early years of his outsting was looking for a reform. But eventually he gave up on that idea, this is why he wrote his two books. I had the opportunity to speak with Ray many times and I don't believe that in his later years he had any faith in a reform of any kind.
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122
Can the jw organization be reformed?
by wannaexit ini know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
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wannaexit
Thank you Ablebodiedman- marked for careful reading.
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wannaexit
"We've come along way baby".
I slugged for 100 hours a month on foot and with little support for the first 5 years and then for the next 15 . What a waste. I need a stiff drink now.
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122
Can the jw organization be reformed?
by wannaexit ini know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
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wannaexit
I have also come to the conclusion that reform has nothing to do with doing the right thing, but has everything to do with the fruition of their agenda.
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122
Can the jw organization be reformed?
by wannaexit ini know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
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wannaexit
LaFrancia: I could ask you in PM, but I will ask her: WHAT IS THE HEALTHY PART OF THE ORGANIZATION?
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The reason behind why the ex-JW community can never match Jehovah's Witnesses' success.
by Stand for Pure Worship inan average of five kingdom halls being constructed daily, almost 8 million brothers and sisters, dissemination of bible literature in 595 languages, 111,795 congregations worldwide, distribution of 179 million bibles available in 116 languages, 239 countries where jehovah's witnesses have a presence, etc.. need i go on?.
on the other hand........... crisis of conscience, freeminds, the awaa, jw.net, ummmmmm........hmmm........idk six screens or something?
not exactly working out for you guys.
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wannaexit
Trying to match success with the watchtower? Are you for real SFPW--in 11 years of being on this and other forums I have never thought that the exjw communities competing for success with the watchtower. Don't you have some theocratic duty this week rather than spending time here.
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122
Can the jw organization be reformed?
by wannaexit ini know that this has been discussed in the past but i wanted to get some fresh opinions.
there are many out there that recognize the "rot" that is in watchtower but still feel that there is a "wholesome" side to it and are trying to bring about change or reform from within.. in 2002 when the rose colored glasses came off for me and i truly started to understand ttatt, i still felt that there was some redemable aspects of the organization.. i felt that russell had some doctrinal things right.
i don't feel like that anymore.
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wannaexit
The following post is from poster member LaFrancia. He kindly asked if I would translate it. THESE ARE HIS OWN VIEWS NOT MINE.
The Reform has already started, and no one can stop it!!! Italian brothers and non italians are living it with their own skin. There is the need to channel the voice of Jehovah's people with the appropriate tools.
I repeat tht one one can stop the reform, not even the members of this forum. The theocratic structure rests soley because you want the top of the summit to stand.
Human governments are keeping world's economic system by printing more money. But the reality is that the economic system is failing and needs reform with tough rules that combat speculation and corruption. It is the same with our theocratic organization.
The present organization, with its 7 levels of power management does nothing but increase the platform of corruption, favoring often corrupt and non-christian behavior to the detriment of honest brothers.
The governing body had already discussed some of the reforms. For example , the practice of disfellowshipping. But there are certain elements that oppose these reforms. There are certain "theocratic lobbyist" that have no interest in wholesome change as they are safeguarding their own particular interest.
The base of Jehovah's people ask the top management of [watchtower] to publicize the reforms that remain in the drawers of the governing body, and above all publicize the names of those that oppose theocratic change.
The whole and healhty part of the organization is in every nation, it is present and it will not stand to watch while others put aside the good name of being a Jehovah's witness.
Individual brothers have given their whole life to uphold principles such as onesty, responsibility, sacrifice, humility, and loyalty. These same people have contributed to God's good name while others are destroying it..
Trust in God, this reform group in Italy has given itself 3 years to share these ideas. The 3 years have expired. The ball has been launched, its up to others to catch it.
Warm Regards,