Posts by Voyager

14

How's this for an effective anti-Watchtower media campaign?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

bear with me, you'll soon see where this is going......... i was listening to radio 5 live (uk) this morning.

a chap was being interviewed about a campaign he has started in brighton to save his local football club and its ground - full story here.

what he and his friends have done is release a record!

Voyager

Nicolaou:

Sounds good to me. If it will expose their hypocrisy, then I am all for it!

Thanks Nic!

13

WT Letter about elders' sins

by IT Support in

someone recently posted a topic which included a link to a wt letter to bodies of elders.

the letter stated that if an elder confessed to having committed a serious (i.e.

disfellowshippable) sin a number of years ago, and nobody knew about it, he need not be removed.

Voyager

This might help also. This post contains a couple of threads to Randy's site that contains the entire letter.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/56381/1.ashx

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Here is the policy in a letter to all elders dated June 1 2001. Read paragraph #4 here: http://www.randytv.com/secret/britainped1.jpg
For the entire letter go here: http://www.randytv.com/secret/abuseletters.htm

Church general counsel Philip Brumley now states in an interview with an Arizona newspaper that: "Where molestation allegations are corroborated, the abuser is banned from the church and is never again allowed to hold a position of authority if the excommunication is rescinded, Brumley said".

Is this really true? Have they allowed known child molesters to become elders in the past? Would they have allowed a serial killer to become an elder too? Have they really stopped as Brumley states? Does anyone know anything about this?

Also: Is it true that if you've had a vasectomy you can't be an elder? I remember something to that effect.

13

WT Letter about elders' sins

by IT Support in

someone recently posted a topic which included a link to a wt letter to bodies of elders.

the letter stated that if an elder confessed to having committed a serious (i.e.

disfellowshippable) sin a number of years ago, and nobody knew about it, he need not be removed.

Voyager

This statement appears in paragraph (4) in the Watchtower letter above, and I thought that was what he was looking for. If not, I'll keep looking.

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There is one exception to the above direction: The elders may have written to the branch office and given full details about a former child abuser who is currently serving as an elder or ministerial servant. In such a case, if the branch office has decided that he can be appointed or continue serving in a position of trust because the sin occurred many years ago and because he has lived an exemplary life since then, his name should not appear on the List, nor is it necessary to pass on information about the brother?s past sin if he moves to another congregation unless contrary instructions have been given by the branch. If therefore, such an appointed man moves to another congregation a letter confirming the move should be sent, addressed to the Society?s Legal Department.

75

The Watchtower: Sincere Old Men or Deliberate Deceivers?

by metatron in

when a witness encounters injustices engendered by the watchtower and considers them.

with clarity of mind, he is likely to suppose that , at worst, the old men who run things.

are sincere but misguided.

Voyager

Metatron:

I appreciate that post metatron, and agree with you whole-heartedly. What you wrote has been proven time and time again.

Thanks!

13

WT Letter about elders' sins

by IT Support in

someone recently posted a topic which included a link to a wt letter to bodies of elders.

the letter stated that if an elder confessed to having committed a serious (i.e.

disfellowshippable) sin a number of years ago, and nobody knew about it, he need not be removed.

Voyager

This might be the letter your looking for. Please note paragraph 4 in the Watchtower letter.

http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/pedo.htm

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How to handle with Child Molesters

By Rado Vleugel

On June 1, 2001 the Watchtower Society of Britain send a letter to all bodies of elders about how to handle with child molesters in the congregation. The letter shows that it is no problem at all that elders and ministerial servants, who in the past have abused children, continue to 'serve' the congregation.

The letter writes:

"The elders may have written to the branch office and given full details about a former child abuser who is currently serving as an elder or ministerial servant. In such a case, if the branch office has decided that he can be appointed or continue serving in a position of trust because the sin occurred many years ago and because he has lived an exemplary life since then, his name should not appear on the List, nor is it necessary to pass on information about the brother's past sin if he moves to another congregation unless contrary instructions have been given by the branch. "

Below are the scans of this letter:

"This is the text of a letter sent to all Presiding Overseers in the UK. It was given to an elder by his PO. This elder was so shocked by what he read he had two copies made and had them notarized by a solicitor as true copies. We met this elder the same day. He showed us the original so we could verify its authenticity ourselves, and he gave us both copies. He made two small alterations to the copies. He obliterated a two-letter code that preceded the date. This identified the congregation. He does not wish to identify his congregation at this time because of the potential repercussions to the PO who inadvertently broke the Society's instructions by letting the letter out of his possession."

I received the scans of this letter from one of my sources. The additional information that you find above and below are taken from the e-mail I received from this source.

"I have obtained a copy of a Society letter pertaining to procedures involving pedophiles (child molesters). Julia and I have verified that both the elder and the letter are genuine. (We are not at liberty to disclose his identity at this time, but we can tell you he has been a JW for nearly 30 years and an elder for almost half that time.)

He is angry and upset at what the Society are now doing in relation to the issues surrounding this subject. In his home congregation is a known pedophile Ministerial Servant currently being investigated by the Police. The elder states that he has been appalled to see the other elders shield him, and that this protection is endorsed by the Circuit and District Overseers. He is still being allowed to serve as a Ministerial Servant in all capacities and, of course, go from door-to-door.

The elder had notarised solicitors copies made before asking us to make the letter public. I would therefore request any of you who have websites to post this as you see fit along with any personal observations you may wish to make.

Those of us who have had extensive dealings with the Society know exactly what the "legalese" is all about. Its called (in polite circles) "covering your backside!" We personally feel that the fourth paragraph is a shoking indigtment of how "safe havens" are created in the congregations for these child abusers.

It is our hope that you will be able to use this information to help sincere JW's see the true face of the organisation. Our experience is that those in control of the Society are motivated now largely by self-preservation and self-interest. Rather than being "the Truth" they will do almost anything to cover up the truth.

As you read this, the latest episode in the "Watchtower Pedophile Tragedy", spare a thought for the thousands of innocent young victims that needlessly suffer horrific abuse every day because of Watchtower legalism."

!

7

Do Bethel Applications Mention This?

by Voyager in

new york telephone building, .

32nd st.. new york telephone building, .

42nd st. & 6th ave.. new york telephone building, .

Voyager

JWbot

Elsewhere

Abbagail

Thank you! And I sure hope that none of you have been harmed by being there. I know for a fact that Randy Watters (suffers) health problems from being there.

Take care!

7

Kids Say The "Funniest" Things!

by Voyager in

catholic elementary (bible) school test.

http://www.ruralnorthwest.com/artman/publish/article_3060.shtml .

Voyager

Brummie

gespro

bem

GentlyFeral

Aude_Sapere

Thank you all for your comments. I have to agree with you. When my wife and I read some of those answers, we nearly busted a gut.

Take care! and Thanks again!

7

Kids Say The "Funniest" Things!

by Voyager in

catholic elementary (bible) school test.

http://www.ruralnorthwest.com/artman/publish/article_3060.shtml .

Voyager

If you did not find the comments, they are located to the (far right) of the article. After I posted it, everything seemed to have moved over there, instead of in the center. Scroll---------->

Thanks!

7

Kids Say The "Funniest" Things!

by Voyager in

catholic elementary (bible) school test.

http://www.ruralnorthwest.com/artman/publish/article_3060.shtml .

Voyager

Catholic Elementary (Bible) School Test.

http://www.ruralnorthwest.com/artman/publish/article_3060.shtml

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Catholic elementary school test

RuralNorthwest.com
By: Feb 3, 2004, 18:01

Pay special attention to the wording and spelling. It comes from a Catholic elementary school test. Kids were asked questions about the Old and New Testaments. The following statements about the Bible were written by children. They have not been retouched or corrected.

1. In the first book of the bible, Guinessis, God got tired of creating the world, so he took the Sabbath off.

2. Adam and Eve were created from an apple tree. Noah's wife was called Joan of Ark. Noah built an ark, which the animals come on to in pears.

3. Lot's wife was a pillar of salt by day, but a ball of fire by night.

4. The Jews were a proud people and throughout history they had trouble with the unsympathetic Genitals.

5. Samson was a strongman who let himself be led astray by a Jezebel like Delilah.

6. Samson slayed the Philistines with the axe of the Apostles.

7. Moses led the Hebrews to the Red Sea, where they made unleavened bread which is bread without any ingredients.

8. The Egyptians were all drowned in the dessert. Afterwards, Moses went up on Mount Cyanide to get the ten amendments.

9. The first commandment was when Eve told Adam to eat the apple.

10. The seventh commandment is thou shalt not admit adultery.

11. Moses died before he ever reached Canada. Then Joshua led the Hebrews in the battle of Geritol.

12. The greatest miracle in the Bible is when Joshua told his son to stand still and he obeyed him.

13. David was a hebrew king skilled at playing the liar. He fought the Finklesteins, a race of people who lived in Biblical times.

14. Solomon, one of David's sons, had 300 wives and 700 porcupines.

15. When Mary heard that she was the mother of Jesus, she sang the Magna Carta.

16. When the three wise guys from the east side arrived, they found Jesus in the manager.

17. Jesus was born because Mary had an immaculate contraption.

18. St. John the blacksmith dumped water on his head.

19. Jesus enunciated the Golden Rule, which says to do one to others before they do one to you. He also explained, a man doth not live by sweat alone.

20. It was a miracle when Jesus rose from the dead and managed to get the tombstone off the entrance.

21. The people who followed the lord were called the 12 decibels.

22. The epistles were the wives of the apostles.

23. One of the oppossums was St. Matthew who was also a taximan.

24. St. Paul cavorted to Christianity. He preached holy acrimony, which is another name for marriage.

25. Christians have only one spouse. This is called monotony.

Thanks! And a tip of the hat to ...
Linda Alt
Bonners Ferry

18

Tsunami could have a negative backlash on sincere JWs

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

the horrific scenes from se asia we have seen on tv over the past week will have an effect one way or another on many jws.

yes, the hardliners will see this as a part of the prelude to armageddon; "famine and earthquakes in various places".

(mat 24) this sort mentally dismisses the unequalled loss of human life, reasoning that most of these would have died at armageddon anyway.

Voyager

Eyeslice wrote:

The Armageddon message is going to be a difficult one to sell to the public over the next year, and I can see many JWs slowing down and beginning to ask some searching questions relating to this disaster.

I totally agree! I have already been receiving E-mails from friends who ask:

1. If the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (did not) forsee the Tsunami Disaster coming, then how in the world can they (forsee) even a (larger) disaster in the future such as that of Armageddon? After all, isn't God the (only) one who is supposed to know of the day and hour?

2. How many testimonies will there be by many of the people who were affected by the disaster, to the effect that Jehovah's Witnesses were there to aid, but they aided their own first, rather than offerred aid to ANYONE else at the time?

3. Why are there (different) stories coming from JWs that are (close) to the effected areas, than those stories coming from Watchtower Headquarters?

4. Why are there reports of JWs stopping to fill (water) jugs at unaffected facilities, when the Watchtower Headquarters, claim that (funds) have been allocated to supply the JWs fresh water?

5. Why do we see that there are indeed (trucks) that can arrive close to some of these affected areas, when the Watchtower Headquarters stated that (no) trucks, (such as their own) can be used to get supplies there?

6. Doesn't the Watchtower (own) a couple of Yaughts, that could get some supplies to areas that are hard to get to?

7. Couldn't the Watchtower put one of their (airplanes) at the disposal of some of the victims, and fly them back over here to the United States, if they are from here? Doesn't the Watchtower have Aviation approval to fly to other countries (anyway), due to the different Branch Offices being located in some of these countries (close) to the affected areas?

In-other-words, there are going to be a whole lot of questions that will arise from this. And the (whole) world will get a birds eye view of just how (loving) the Watchtower Society is to their fellow man!

Thanks Eyeslice!