Posts by Prime

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

Prime, that is simply not true. Here in Victoria, Australia, I volunteer for a palliative care service. I need and have a Working With Children card (getting this requires a police check) in case I come into contact with children as part of voluntary work. There is no question at all of children being separated from parents.

Palliative care - a branch of medicine that involves physical contact with others.

I can understand this.

Nonsense. As I've posted previously, door to door work is an excellent cover for a paedophile seeking new victims to groom.

The wt's position on this is outdated, dishonest and untenable, as is yours.

So if the Brady Campaign (a campaign to end gun violence) launched a door-to-door campaign to assist in spreading their message, they could incur liability if someone exploited their campaign for illicit purposes? There's always some piece of trash, ambulance chasing lawyer (crook) that will capitalize on anything and everything to siphon money from others. Most persons with a shred of common decency don't have such a warped perspective on things, that they can't see anything without an association fallacy.

A person can exploit many things for illicit purposes, but the only persons who go to irrational extremes to make others responsible for the crimes of another are people like you.

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

In the UK laws and procedures have been put in place in an effort to protect children from sexual predators. In most settings people who come in contact with children are obliged to complete a CRB check and organisations and schools have to have polices for safeguarding children. The society will say that they don't need these checks or policies because children are in the care of parents but this is simply untrue.

There are occasions when children are separated from parents on the service where a mother may be obliged to share her children amongst other publishers because there are too many to go on the door with her and her partner. Young teens may go on the service alone at weekends because their parents do service during the week or there is an unbelieving husband who objects to their spouse going out on the doors at the weekend. Spiritual widows are encouraged to get a mature brother to study with their sons alone and the list goes on. Children are vulnerable and yet the society sticks to their rights and the sensitivity of the perpetrator without giving any thought to the victim.

These men followed instruction what a shame their instructions lacked any moral fibre or selfless appreciation of what it was like to be a victim. If the society is not prepared to follow guidance set up to protect children then it should be because they can offer something better not because they have too much to hide.

The only organizations that screen volunteers and conduct criminal background checks associated with child protection are organizations that host activities where children are separated from their parents.

Within the Jehovah's Witnesses faith, there is no "Sunday School," "church camp," or other children's activities in which children are separated from their parents. The parents of children in the congregation are expected to guide, direct and attend to the needs of their children. The elders are there to give spiritual guidance and direction and any other practical assistance possible, but the parents are there to monitor and discipline their children. Jehovah 's Witness children are not separated from their parents for any spiritual programs or activities.

There are many nonprofit organizations that host volunteer activities where parents are welcome to bring their children, provided they're properly supervised. Hypothetically, a child could be temporarily separated from their parents, if a church hosts a recreational activity at a public park. Should an organization screen every adult that wishes to participate in something like this?

If there are any organizations that do NOT host activities where there's a formal arrangement where children are separated from their parents, that DO screen volunteers for reasons related to child protection by conducting background checks, maybe you could reference one so I can see what it is. If there isn't one, it's obviously NOT practical to do this.

Quit fear mongering. If people can't even participate in a door-to-door preaching assignment without everyone submitting to background checks because society is overrun with child rapists, if things are that perilous, what a lawless crime-ridden, trash society we live in. I don't think things are that bad yet.

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

You and I both know that lawyers can prolong and prevaricate in court using many devices and tactics to keep their client out of the witness box.

The question here is why was the Watchtower prepared to devote legal counsel expenses to a case involving a disfellowshipped child molestor - remember he had been reproved and disfellowshipped way before 'the months of legal wrangling' - just to be clear this wrangling was the Watchtower legal team and the Crown Prosecution, NOT the local elders and the local police.

Why?

I put it to you it was because the Watchtower was caught in a murky spiral of its own making, with each mistep compounding the previous one.

Mistake 1 - at the confessional meeting (under instruction from the WTS undoubtedly) 'going to the police was not discussed as an option' - if you were the Watchtower would you want your agents admitting this in open court?

Mistake 2 - the elders (under instruction from the WTS undoubtedly) refused to cooperate with the police investigation for a period covering several years - if you were the Watchtower would you want your agents admitting this in open court?

Mistake 3 - the elders (under instruction from the WTS undoubtedly) refused to comply with a Witness Summons, until the Judge made it clear there was a possible contempt charge if they didn't (read jailtime and criminal record). Faced with a criminal record for attempting to protect a child abuser, they complied. Finally.

Why did the Watchtower allow this situation go from bad to worse, ending up with their name in the press <again> for trying to cover up child abuse?

Why?

"Why" did this member of the congregation inform the elders of what this man did in the first place?

So the elders could address the matter as a congregation and take whatever action was appropriate. As for what was stated earlier;

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/190604/DFES-04320-2006-ChildAbuse.pdf

"What to do if you’re worried a child is being abused"

The reason there's no guidelines that instruct a person what to do if an adult comes to you about abuse that occurred years ago, is because this is not something a person necessarily has to concern their mind with. Not from a legal standpoint anyway.

If it's up to this adult victim to press charges, why should anyone else pursue the matter for them? It's not practical to do so. You may have an opinion as to how another adult should respond to this matter, but whether another person decides to get involved or not, they will not be held accountable for not getting involved. There's no conspiracy or cover up because the elders allowed the adult victim to criminally prosecute her assailant. There was no initial "misstep."

The only organizations that have ever been criticized for their stance on police involvement, are organizations that host activities where children are under the care of the organization and separated from their parents when a child was sexually assaulted.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boy-scouts-leader-reassures-parents-perversion-files-reveal-sex-abuse-cover-ups-article-1.1162246

No organization is held accountable for their response to any crime involving their overall church membership or any incident outside the perimeters of their facilities, officials and sponsored activities. If the man was ever a ministerial servant (official) he was stripped of his position and excommunicated. No one is criticized because they didn't act as an adult's spokesmen (informing the police even though there's no liability issues) or whether they testified in court to a confession (unless they ignored a court order or perjured themselves).

If Jehovah's Witnesses are held to account for something no one else is held responsible for, it will be rejected by anyone who's aware of liability issues and society's overall response to this sort of thing.

257

The President addresses the Nation

by designs in

in a speech that is considered one of the most personal given by the president, or any past president, president obama speaks about treyvon martin being him 35 years agoand- violence, prejudice, the reach and limits of the states and the federal government, and the soul searching to follow.

.

he, the president, invokes martin luther king's- 'the content of character' quote to spark a healthy debate in this country.. www.cnn.com.

Prime

Whether "the people" are ignorant of the law or just don't care, president Obama knows the people protesting this case are trying to get the government to break its own laws. That's exactly what would be the case if the government charged Zimmerman with a hate crime.

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

They resisted for two years.

Are you ignorant of the facts or are you a liar?

I did say this earlier;

"How is it that the elders for three years refused to cooperate with the police? All the police can do in respects to this matter is ask the elders to make a statement. Whether they choose to make a statement or not, this conversation would take place over the course of a few minutes, not a few years."

If there was any legal objection presented to being called to testify in court, it's because the law is not black and white pertaining to penitential communications in the U.K., as it is in the United States. This is likely because the U.K. doesn't have any reporting laws. There are consequences if anyone does not fulfill a legal obligation, even if it's a small fine for failing to appear for jury duty. If the elders were in no way penalized by the legal system, they fulfilled their legal obligation, pure and simple.

It would be more constructive for you to write a letter to the governor of California and like states pertaining to this matter and voice your complaints, than to complain about Jehovah's Witnesses. They're a minute fraction of the problem if you believe there is one. In the U.S., the law is black and white and because of their confession protocols, Christendom's churches don't even have to report a matter, let alone testify. Because of the protocols and tenets of JWs involving a "third person," they would have to testify under California law.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=evid&group=01001-02000&file=1030-1034

CALIFORNIA EVIDENCE CODE SECTION 1030-1034

1030. As used in this article, a "member of the clergy" means a priest, minister, religious practitioner, or similar functionary of a church or of a religious denomination or religious organization.

1031. As used in this article, "penitent" means a person who has made a penitential communication to a member of the clergy.

1032. As used in this article, "penitential communication" means a communication made in confidence, in the presence of no third person so far as the penitent is aware, to a member of the clergy who, in the course of the discipline or practice of the clergy member's church, denomination, or organization, is authorized or accustomed to hear those communications and, under the discipline or tenets of his or her church, denomination, or organization, has a duty to keep those communications secret.

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

It is shocking that the Society is happy to hide behind a suggestion that victims are never prevented from reporting an accusation themselves is sufficient. There is no direction to ensure the victim does this. There is no direction to support them in doing so. There is no direction to even make the suggestion. There is no direction to ensure the victim is assured of the Elders' support in doing this. There is every chance that this option will not be freely offered. There is every chance that this option will be presented with very strong overtones of disapproval. There is every chance that any elder who acts in a decisive and morally sound way shall lose the support of the majority, if not all, of his fellows and even the branch.

Most persons are completely aware of how to report a crime to the authorities. If a person needs direction and support for any reason, they will receive this from the elders and congregation. Many churches publish information that instructs others how to reach out to victims of abuse. There's quite a bit of information in the Watchtower and Awake! magazine on the subject. If you're referring to an institutionalized resource, like a department on a college campus to help victims of date-rape, that's generally not something you'll find in a church.

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

Phizzy: I never said that you accused him of a crime, and you are deliberately avoiding the fact that asking someone such a question with no evidence, is both provocative and pointless. What do you expect him to say? Exactly, so please don't pretend it was a 'fair question'. Anyway, when people ask trolls to back up their claims, they tend to dissappear. No need to provoke..

I was occupied with something else on Thursday and Friday, like work. You would think anyone with a job would understand. I'll rephrase my statement. Most people in the United States do not agree with the Prime Minister's position and there are persons in the U.K. that have proven his approach to be ineffective.

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

Prime - If a person confesses to you that they molested a child and subsequently refuses to confess to the police, then they are a significant danger to children.

Your moral obligation to report them and stand as witness against them in a court is not even open to negotiation.

The only reason you can't see this is because you are an apologist for a religious cult that has an appalling reputation for child abuse.

If you can't see that your policies that were intended to protect your reputation is backfiring spectacularly then you are blind.

I already stated that personally, I would have turned the confession over to the police. There are elders that have turned over a confession to investigating officers. It's a matter of public record. You and others are drawing a distinction between what's legal and what is moral. Society has a whole decides what is legal based on moral principles. If something isn't incorporated into law, it's for one of two reasons. One, society views it as a moral right or it isn't a danger to society. Two, it's a trivial matter and doesn't need to be addressed by the legal system.

Once a person that's a danger to society has been turned over to the police, from that point on, society is protected unless a suspect cannot be charged. A confession to a religious leader is not needed to charge a person. It can be useful to the legal system to convict a person, that's why the elders were called in to testify. The elders testified and fulfilled their moral and legal obligations. The confession related to this matter was acquired strictly because of religious reasons. In a circumstance like this, it's best to allow the authorities to bridge the separation of church and state.

As for the reputation of Jehovah's Witnesses, a person or organization's reputation isn't based on what people like yourself say, even if you say it to the media and they repeat it.

172

Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

Just because there are no mandatory reporting laws in England, Wales and Scotland (Northern Ireland does) does not mean that the UK government is silent on the subject.

On the contrary there are recommended best practice guidelines - "What to do if you're worried a child is being abused"

One of the first directions is:

10.2 Remember that an allegation of child abuse or neglect may lead to a criminal investigation, so don’t do anything that may jeopardise a police investigation, such as asking a child leading questions or attempting to investigate the allegations of abuse.

Perhaps Prime (or anyone else) can explain how the Watchtower Society child protection policy complies with this basic initial instruction?

The victim in this case was not a child. This is par for the course when a victim tells something to an elder. Victims come forward as adults about abuse that occurred years ago.

To be applicable, the instruction would read;

"What to do if an adult comes to you about abuse that occurred years ago"

No where in the guidelines does it bring such circumstances into question.

"There is no mandatory reporting law in the UK as there is in some other countries: the relevant statutory guidance allows heads to exercise a degree of discretion about what to report."

There is reason to exercise a degree of discretion when it's adults telling you things. It's unlikely that a child would bring anything to an elder, but even if it is not a child, but a minor who is sixteen for example, the elders are instructed not to pursue the matter in anyway before contacting a branch office.

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Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

by jwleaks in

church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

Prime

@Prime: You never answered my question - why did the elders REFUSE to cooperate with the police. Why did it take 3 years and a court order to make them cooperate? Why, if your duty is to report, does the WTBTS require you to call their legal team first for advice when the WTBTS is not the organization that's involved and does not protect individual elders (they are not barristers or lawyers to the elders)?

How is it that the elders for three years refused to cooperate with the police? All the police can do in respects to this matter is ask the elders to make a statement. Whether they choose to make a statement or not, this conversation would take place over the course of a few minutes, not a few years. It's questionable whether the information sought by the investigating officer(s) was needed to bring a charge because of what is stated here;

"But Newcastle Crown Court heard he had secretly confessed to the abuse to the elders."

Up to this point, the elders didn't make a statement, so the police obviously had the same information.

If the courts needed the elders to testify for a conviction, this is an option. The position taken by the elders was to testify if they have a legal obligation to do so. The elder's position is black and white. This article makes it sound like the law is not definitive on this matter, therefore, the law is gray.

If an arrangement exists where a person will speak to you in confidence provided it stays that way, it's best that the law dictate what's in the public's best interest if what was stated in confidence should be disclosed.

When it comes to some matters, if a person can't speak to you in confidence, they're not going to speak to you at all.