Posts by sableindian

33

Black reparations

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

hi, everyone.. a week or so ago someone posted on the subject of black reparations and asked what our opinion was - pro or con - and why.

now, i'm not going to claim that i'm an expert on the subject, plus, i'm white, plus, i'm a back country red-neck (of the jeff foxworthy stripe .

well, the truth is that country red-necks are as badly misrepresented in public opinion as most other groups in the country.

sableindian

TeeJay,

*sigh* Let's talk. You know where to find me.

Sableindian

33

Black reparations

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

hi, everyone.. a week or so ago someone posted on the subject of black reparations and asked what our opinion was - pro or con - and why.

now, i'm not going to claim that i'm an expert on the subject, plus, i'm white, plus, i'm a back country red-neck (of the jeff foxworthy stripe .

well, the truth is that country red-necks are as badly misrepresented in public opinion as most other groups in the country.

As a committee member of the Potawatomi and ethnic member of the Muskogee and Hustchi Nation, I'd just like to share some information with you as far as Blacks are concerned. I would also like to invite you to a Pow Wow near you. Enjoy some fry bread and honey corn.

"Chief Osceola led his fellow Seminole in Florida into the second Seminole War(1835-1842) against the United States. The conflict arose when the U.S. government tried to relocate the mixed Indian and African American Seminole to Oklahoma, and was aggravated by white and Creek Indian claims that many Seminole, possibly including Osceola's wife, were escaped slaves"

Florida did not become a slave state until 1845. Just 20 years later slavery was abolished. All this talk about reparations is good in a sense that it is bringing out dialogue. But we know as Indigenous people that there is no cause to hold one's breath. We should take note of the progress of both peoples IN SPITE of the weighted heel. WE know the media depictions are different than the realistic depictions. WE know that Indigenous and Black people live not only in big cities and reservations, but also in suburbs and country homes. In Europe and in the islands around the world. We know there is wealth in both Indigenous and Black families. Yet, I believe the cry is not for those of us who are affluent. But for those who can not seem to get from under the weighted heel. The cries are of those with feelings for others, it is true. But there are other cries and we must listen to all who hurt over this matter, be fair and weigh it carefully.

I live in a small town in Georgia. Thank God it is a college town. It would be worse than it is if it weren't. And it is pretty bad. I am in culture shock. I have to remember what I say and do. And why people react to me the way they do. LOL ("You're not from here, are you?")

And still I see the mixture of the Hustchi in the language and singing here in this area of the south. There is always hope for a truly peaceful existing world. I think it will be the women who lead the way. (smile)

33

Black reparations

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

hi, everyone.. a week or so ago someone posted on the subject of black reparations and asked what our opinion was - pro or con - and why.

now, i'm not going to claim that i'm an expert on the subject, plus, i'm white, plus, i'm a back country red-neck (of the jeff foxworthy stripe .

well, the truth is that country red-necks are as badly misrepresented in public opinion as most other groups in the country.

sableindian

Hi, Stinky,

As an American of African descent you are probably also of an indigenous heritage. Your statement is true for many Indigenous Americans.

Here is a more accurate statement.

"If enrolled in a Federally recognized Tribe, there are some colleges available which do offer virtually a free education. The student first files the FAFSA and makes application to a college which is sponsored by that particular Tribe. Do an internet search for Indian Colleges."

And as for living conditions, not all Indigenous Americans do or want to live on a reservation. The matter is choice and that seems to be where the status quo wants to keep us. And those who don't live on the reservation sometimes are looked at badly among older ones. But we are all learning and the love is there. Please visit a Pow Wow near you and see your people and come join us.

33

Black reparations

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

hi, everyone.. a week or so ago someone posted on the subject of black reparations and asked what our opinion was - pro or con - and why.

now, i'm not going to claim that i'm an expert on the subject, plus, i'm white, plus, i'm a back country red-neck (of the jeff foxworthy stripe .

well, the truth is that country red-necks are as badly misrepresented in public opinion as most other groups in the country.

sableindian

Hi, LoneWolf,

(sounds like you're in my neck of the woods. Any (Indian) Indigenous blood? See you've got black bugs blood. LOL)

I totally agree with you about the "redneck" issue. I have many friends who are not minorities. I just recently moved to Georgia. I think there is supposed to be a difference between a "cracker" and a "red neck". Just learning. But one thing I have learned through out the years is that as I cried, babysat, joked, hugged and loved my White female friends from the south, I also fought as hard for their rights as a woman.

There was a "red neck" on my job who had a brilliant idea. When I found out who was making my life easier because of his idea, I went straight to him to let him know. There was also a monetary award for those with good ideas. NO ONE IN MANAGEMENT WAS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. (This was in Texas) First I let him know about it. He thanked me and did nothing. Then I wrote management, two letters, supervisors and senior supervisors. No response. So I BROUGHT the young man an application filled out what I knew and asked him to fill out the rest. He said that no one would listen to him. So I began to bug him everyday. Finally he filled it out and turned it in.

Do you know he won $100, got his name mentioned at a meeting and on the bulletin of the corporation. He wanted to give me something and I told him the best thing he could do was to remember that his vision is just as important as anyone else and to let his children know what he had done and what he received.

I believe wholeheartedly that he was ignored because he was a "redneck". And that made me fighting mad! I see a division when one looks at race. But I see unity when one looks at economics. Look a little closer at the unemployment problem today. It sho' ain't race.

This quiet Libra can get a little pushy when I see injustice around me!

12

WTS Reparations

by Black Man in

.

if you could, what reparations would the wts have to make to you?

sableindian

I agree with happyout. College. Maybe also an all out re-education of elders and up. Also the abolishing of disfellowshiping on whims. And the shunning of family members. Also an automatic allowance of talking to ANYONE after one year (some folks may not want to be reinstated). What scripture says that a person has to jump so many hoops to be reinstated. Also public individual apologies. Money? They don't have enough. But maybe they should support the older elders who were disfellowshipped on trumped up accusations. They gave their lives and they had no social security. They face a fierce work force.

I changed my life for the truth at 19 years old. I am now 53. I'm doing okay but I know those in their 90 are not as fortunate as I am. We can chalk all that time up to experience. And WT as our volunteer employers. Looks good on the resume.

106

We're all Americans....Reparations?

by Country Girl in

reparations.

this country was barely populated when slaves were brought from africa.

are you going to hunt down every descendant of slaves, many of whom took on the names of their owners families and have thousands upon thousands of descendants?

sableindian

Hi, Funkyderek

Jst_me was replying to your post

"Humans are not indigenous to the Americas."

Could you please clarigy your statement? I'd just like to know where you're coming from.

Thanks

Sable being able

106

We're all Americans....Reparations?

by Country Girl in

reparations.

this country was barely populated when slaves were brought from africa.

are you going to hunt down every descendant of slaves, many of whom took on the names of their owners families and have thousands upon thousands of descendants?

sableindian

*sigh*

Let's get back to point A.

I read your post.

The biggest obstacle for most minorities to achieve some form of success today is their own subculture of ignorance, victimization, and entitlement. Asian people came to America suffered the same set of unfair circumstances and made it, why not the black of Indian community? Read my previous post if you want my view. I think most of the reparations supporters should keep in mind what they want is some payment for a crime that never happened to them, and they want the people that did not commit it to pay. The playing field is mostly equal now so succeed or rot nobody stole your building blocks.

Terry

I see a statement:

"Asian people came to America suffered the same set of unfair circumstances"
Because of that statement I was concerned so I said that I was not interested in your previous post unless "you have already enumerated and documented the accusation you have of what happened to the Indigenous People and the Black People with the Asian People. "

My mistake was looking up YOUR research for you.

"My point, which you will never get, is that the whole concept of someone paying for their genetic precursors sins is itself a racist idea; completely at odds with MLKs color blind society. That is why you are a racist"

We are talking about reparations from a promise made by a government that did not keep their promise. To state otherwise is quite racist in itself.

There are legal precedents in place world wide for reparations for survivors as well as victims.

I have never said and will never make the comparison of the Asian against the African. It was YOUR statement, little one, that made me even think of the 2.

It is you, little one, who used the word "same". Here is the definition for your benefit.

same

ADJECTIVE:

1. Being the very one; identical: the same boat we rented before.
2. Similar in kind, quality, quantity, or degree.
3. Conforming in every detail: according to the same rules as before.

So since you used the word, same, I was just wondering were the Asian brought here by force or did they choose. Were the Asians able to keep their culture, language and education? Were the children of the Asians taken from them so that they could not be taught the skills of the parents? After the Asians attained their freedom (same circumstances) and they acquired cities where they became doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. Did the jealous people constantly come and burn them out and never give them any insurance, blame them for burning down their cities? And after the years of lynchings of the Asian males for looking at white women, walking on the wrong side of the street and answering in the wrong way (talking back) image did they young men have to look up to as they grew up fatherless?

I understand the Asian dilemma. And I admire their ability to overcome. That is why you will never see an Asian, White, etc in the prison system and poor.

Bravo for your analogy.

Then again...when one does see (and I use the term 'when' loosely) a poor Asian, an uneducated or criminal White. What are we all to think of him? So blessed in your eyes and having so much going for him. What becomes of the image of a White man who is a successful criminal, murderer or rapist? I'll tell you what...they make movies about him and it becomes Oscar material.

Think about it.

By the way, have you ever read the reporter's story called "Black Like Me"?

I think the problem here, little one, is that you are not focused. I have never come here to argue, although you seem to want to. I have always been willing to see another point of view, that is why I ask for research. I have never argued against the Asian position. Arguing and asking for the back up of your comparisons are 2 different issues. Sooo, I see from your post that you know Klansmen. Now it all fits.

"You are the first person I have met, that was not a klansmen" I've never met a Klansman. Not knowingly anyway. Wow...deep

Asians were not allowed to marry whites (like they really wanted to with the beautiful women they already had. LOL funny)
At one point Asian women could not immigrate to America (at one point no women were allowed. So they just ravaged the indigenous woman!)
Asians could only work in certain jobs (Gold mining labors, laundry workers, prostitutes) Wow, they had jobs. Were they paid? Or were they paid and then had to buy from the owner's store? Were they educated enough to read or were they left uneducated so that when they were paid they weren't cheated.
Asians had to pay a special foreign miners tax that was created just for them (yep, sounds pretty much like the status quo to me)
Asians could not own land (oh so that is why they didn't get burned out. Well that was actually a protection in the long run, thank God)
Asians were paid a fraction of what white co-workers were paid when they tried to strike they were starved into submission
Asians were interned during World War II

Wow, who did all these bad things to the Asians? Pretty gloomy, although, in your words, they are not the "SAME CIRCUMSTANCE".

Wow, those folks who did this to Asians, Blacks, Jews, Irish, Indigenous, women and children were just a bunch of bullies who left the 20th and the 21st century holding a big bag of ....

And my point is that if all these bad things happened to the Asians and they overcame, I wonder what would have happened if they had to overcome under the SAME CIRCUMSTANCES that African slaves had to overcome (and many did. Read your Black history). And by the way...all Asians weren't interned. Only the Japanese. They're different, you know.

Sable at the table.

106

We're all Americans....Reparations?

by Country Girl in

reparations.

this country was barely populated when slaves were brought from africa.

are you going to hunt down every descendant of slaves, many of whom took on the names of their owners families and have thousands upon thousands of descendants?

sableindian

To answer your question, because unlike you I both have and will answer questions, your race hate comes from the fact that you feel people are guilty solely because of the color of their skin. You feel you are a victim because of your skin color, even though you have never felt the crimes you mention. You feel white people should pay for crimes that they did not commit just because they were born with the sin of being white.

Hello, Little one,

Who are you talking to, Little One? This is Sableindian. You must be mixing me up with someone. Please show me my quotes where I have said the things you imply. *oh, foo, I did your research again in my last post (re:ThiChi)*. Ok, I promise to stop doing your research for you.

And I will not do your research for you. You'll have to do that yourself. I know those highschool tricks. I tried to give you a head start by giving you some reasearch to start you off. So, my statement remains the same. Or should I change it to a question by putting will you if front? Okay...WILL YOU show me the same circumstances that Blacks and Indigenous folks suffered that Asians suffered? You know, Little one, you have to back up those statements you make. And if you think that my research does not apply, so be it. I am not so "little" that I will not say I will listen to your information and ignore mine. But, Little one, where is the information.

Waiting with panted breath for your information.

14

Feb1,2003 Question from readers

by hannibal in

"why does the bible say that a person should scream if theatened with rape".

has anyone posted this yet?

its rather unbeleivable.

sableindian

Ok, so if I'm in my car and I'm out far away in the country. (I live in Georgia) my car breaks down. I start walking. A couple of farm boys quit it with the cows and see a live human Fee-male. If I scream my lungs out are the WTBS elders still stupid or what? Waiting with baited breath to hear counsel from my good friends on this thread.

I think that law was given to the Nation of Israel because all around them were their folks. Brothers, fathers, uncles, etc. But, check it out. Tamar got raped by her brother and I believe an uncle helped him plot the rape. When Absalom killed that guy I was all into Absalom, *yes, my bruthuh*. Why don't we just hack up the perpetrators and leave the screaming to the elders. They're really good at it. (Let's see what happens when THEY have to go to prison...or did they change that conscientious objector idea too.)

sable havin' fun at the table

106

We're all Americans....Reparations?

by Country Girl in

reparations.

this country was barely populated when slaves were brought from africa.

are you going to hunt down every descendant of slaves, many of whom took on the names of their owners families and have thousands upon thousands of descendants?

sableindian

Please read your previous statement. Ignore my help and just procede with your proof. I have no racial hatred. You are making statements that do not pertain to my statements. How old are you, little one?

Shalom,

Sableindian

PS

Did I put quotes around those statements I presented? I sure meant to. I surely didn't mean for you to think that after I looked up those statistics that I presented them as my own statements. Please forgive me if I gave you the impression that I didn't look up the information but thought up these statistics on my own. Please take note, little one, that I am also quoting you on the expression , "same circumstances". And I would also like for you to take note of your words that implied THE PAST, not the present. The expression SUFFERED. means IN THE PAST. (Hope I am not going too fast for you, little one, if I do, please let me know.)

There is no argument. I thought I was helping you out with your research. So as I stated previously. Ignore my help and show me the same circumstances the Indigenous and Blacks suffered that the Asians suffered.

I know for a fact that all Whites were not bad people, just like all Jews did not murder Jesus. It is alright to read this thread and find out what people are saying here. I never said that I would benefit from reparations. I was asked if I thought others would. And I gave my opinion of others. But, one day, little one. You will grow up and see that people actually are individuals and have different opinions other than the small opinions in your mind. Just pray and Jehovah will expand your brain. It's been all squashed through out the time of your association with JWs.

Read your post, little one. No comment. I could see you put a lot of thought in it. Very narrow because you talk about the Black community as if there are no doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, business owners, degreed people, honor students, folks with government jobs, etc. Poor people, not Black people, face these issues. Well, I could go on and on. I see that you need to just go into the Black neighborhood and associate. I did and got an eye opener.

By the way, if you are from California...I was raised in Windsor Hills near LA. My mother was Dr. Rashiida Hameed. Part of that Black community. But not part of the poor community. Take note, Little one.

Here is my quote I wrote to ThiChi "Thi Chi,

I've been to the site you put up. I think it is a great site. A little information is gullible. But I happen to like this site. I think it is educational and sensitive. It is also bringing out information that minorities already knew. And, as I mentioned before, I am all for education on this issue. In fact I believe the best thing about bringing up reparations for the unproduced promise of the US government is that it is bringing out information that was ignored previously.

Here in Georgia, we will be voiting on the Confederate flag issue. This site brings out the issue very well.

What I believe is that each "group" that benefitted will have to make judgement for themselves what THEY will do to have themselves clear.

Me, I'd rather have my reparations and treaty agreements with my Creator. And leave the eternal punishments to Him also.

But in the meantime...hopefully, the education will continue.

Shalom

Sableindian"

How did this thread get in Jokes and Humor? That County Girl...

Edited by - sableindian on 28 January 2003 1:52:39

Edited by - sableindian on 28 January 2003 2:7:23

Edited by - sableindian on 28 January 2003 2:27:36